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Help me build Buchla/Serge style Capacitance Touch Keyboard?
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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: US

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

From what i understand the common voltage output is a sum voltage of the number of plates being touched. you could kludge in the individual touch voltage outs without a whole lot of effort or space. It wasn't until afterward that i noticed the problem in the oscillator driver. i do sincerely apologize for that error. before etching your programmer, wait until i post the new foil. It has the common pulse circuit it and the cv summers on their on board that have the capacity for 3 rows.
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shawn



Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Posts: 209
Location: savannah

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I blew up T3 in the oscillator circuit so I gotta go through and see what short(s) I had. Damn piece hit me in the face!
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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 885
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

akrearke wrote:
From what i understand the common voltage output is a sum voltage of the number of plates being touched. you could kludge in the individual touch voltage outs without a whole lot of effort or space.


I don't have the doc in front of me, but the way I remembered it was that the common out only ouput the hightest pressure voltage at current state, no matter how many heys were held down-- making it, IMO, a more ideal output. I can't see a use for 16 pressure outs (+16 note outs, etc). Frankly, I don't even want 16 note outs I don't, but I'll get to that when I get there...
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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok here are the re-worked layout files and everything else.


SYNAPSE FULL 16 NOTE TOUCH KEYBOARD PARTS LAYOUT jpg.JPG
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SYNAPSE FULL 16 NOTE TOUCH KEYBOARD PARTS LAYOUT jpg.JPG



SYNAPSE 16 NOTE PROGRAMMER FOIL jpg.JPG
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SYNAPSE 16 NOTE PROGRAMMER FOIL jpg.JPG



SYNAPSE PROGRAMMER PARTS LAYOUT jpg.JPG
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SYNAPSE PROGRAMMER PARTS LAYOUT jpg.JPG



SYNAPSE 3x16 NOTE CV SUMMING FOIL jpg.JPG
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SYNAPSE 3x16 NOTE CV SUMMING FOIL jpg.JPG



SYNAPSE 3x16 NOTE CV SUMMING PARTS LAYOUT jpg.JPG
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SYNAPSE 3x16 NOTE CV SUMMING PARTS LAYOUT jpg.JPG


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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the touch plate foils included


SYNAPSE 16 NOTE TOUCH KEYBOARD FOIL jpg.JPG
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SYNAPSE 16 NOTE TOUCH KEYBOARD FOIL jpg.JPG



SYNAPSE FULL 16 NOTE TOUCH KEYBOARD PARTS LAYOUT jpg.JPG
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SYNAPSE FULL 16 NOTE TOUCH KEYBOARD PARTS LAYOUT jpg.JPG



TOUCH PLATE FOIL jpg.JPG
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TOUCH PLATE FOIL jpg.JPG


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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok the touch plate foil has to be 11" across and around 2" wide to get the plates about the right size. I can make these for those who are interested. just send me pm, or if there is enough interest then post the request or questions on the forum. I hope this thing works for everyone. i have gone over it three times in the past couple weeks so the layout should be good. BUT STILL DOUBLE CHECK! After awhile these things start to be like working a puzzle upside-down and backwards. I will post the Japanese buchla clone a little later.
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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: US

PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here are eight note versions of the foils. and what i have noticed is that converting them back to he original bitmap files in paint increases the resolution.


8 note programmer foil.JPG
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8 note programmer foil.JPG



8 note touch plate foil.JPG
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8 note touch plate foil.JPG


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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: US

PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok here are some photos of the all the stuff i have been working on. just so everyone know i am not full of it...

- the 112 style tkb redesigned.
- mark verbos' 258's, 291's, and 292's.
- 110 clone.
- serge vca.
- quad 281's.
- analog logic.
- Xfader.
more...

all just waiting for the cabinets to be built.


japanese tkb full board set..JPG
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japanese tkb full board set..JPG



buchla clone modules and more.JPG
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buchla clone modules and more.JPG


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Tasmanian Alkaloid



Joined: Jun 29, 2008
Posts: 116
Location: Isle De Mort

PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

akrearke wrote:
ok here are some photos of the all the stuff i have been working on.


the tkb looks awesome! I'd like to try building one.
Thanks for sharing the foils & for your work in bringing them here Smile
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shawn



Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Posts: 209
Location: savannah

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Found a labeling error. For the programmer portion of the layout, the resistor connected to the pin 6 of the rightmost IC is actually 330k and not 100k as listed on the layout.

Still looking at the programmer, the other portion of the layout contains a 150k in the upper left corner. It's missing the +12 connection that T4, 150k and 10k share.

I haven't finished the rest but this is what I found so far.
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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: US

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you are correct. just draw a trace from the 150k/10k junction to the uppermost trace and you have +voltage. as for the 330K resistor, you are also correct. easy fixes, but could have presented serious problems.
i hope everyone will post their own findings.
I downloaded some pcb layout software, we'll see what comes about in the future...
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shawn



Joined: Dec 13, 2005
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Location: savannah

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just confirmed that the touch portion layout works from what I can tell. I built just one portion of the 8 switch foil set. Touch 1 is working but I haven't tested Touch 2 but since I confirmed that the layout is correct I don't see any issues with the other. I'm going to skip the programmer and build the cgs programmer instead but I'm excited.
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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 885
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Would it be foolish for me to try and kluge my first version pcb? If not, any suggestions for what I should pay attention to on the old PCB layout, beyond what's already been pointed out?
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shawn



Joined: Dec 13, 2005
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Location: savannah

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well the touch portion from the latest revision is correct. I confirmed it's the same from the schematic and the Touch 1 switch should work fine. At least with the touch portion I don't think you would run into any issues.
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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So, it was just the driver portion that had all the errors? I corrected a couple, but there must have been more. Perhaps, I'll just etch just etch a new daughter board for the Osc Driver.
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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: US

PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anybody had any luck with these yet? I'm getting ready to house all of my floating circuits, and will let everyone know what happens with the "112 style". If it works well, I'll post everything for that one too...
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The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 257
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not yet for me! I've never etched a board myself before, and wanted to do a few other things before attempting this - got most of the parts though! I was hoping to breadboard when I've got some time over the hols.

Thanks for sharing all the info akrearke...

Charlie

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davemoog



Joined: Feb 23, 2008
Posts: 52
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone know how the Serge TKB derives the pressure voltage?
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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
Posts: 48
Location: US

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

there is a article in Synapse magazine mentioned in this thread that gives a good explanation. As far as a detailed circuit analysis, it would probably be best to look up some basic Op-Amp circuits and compare. Sorry I can't tell you more about it right now. When I have one built I will study it thoroughly and post my findings.
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macumbista



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This looks great! Please keep us up to date on revisions etc. Still have plans to produce any boards?
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akrearke



Joined: Sep 08, 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay. the japan tkb, never got it working. I built two prototypes found common direct replacement parts for the odd ones, still nothing. checked the schematic found on this thread against the Buchla, they are identical in operation, only part values differ. the Japan tkb uses germanium diodes, buchla uses silcon. I have a some of these black diodes left... as far as the transistors go i used PN versions of the buchla originals. Here is what happens. One LED lights, that is one at a time, so that latching and monophonic operation seems to be how it functions. There are two trimmers per note and these have to be calibrated precisely it seems. I have spent many hours twiddling these little pots and at best the led moves to latch another note. no pulse output, no cv output. any ideas?
Oh, if anyone who is reading this thread knows how to calibrate or the operation of the circuit let me know...
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I built an 8 stage copy of the Japanese keyboard too. It also doesn't work. Sad

The oscillator works and IIRC the square wave reaches the touch keys, but nothing happens beyond that. I haven't spent a ton of time debugging it, but plan on going back to it when I finish my Haible Freq Shifter.

R.
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akrearke



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am probably just going to scrap the one I built. I don't think it will work... sorry I am being a little pessimistic. There are realy too many things that can go wrong in a circuit this complex, and with no support from anyone more experienced, it may not be worth the time and effort. This is why I never posted the foil I did for it...
However, I am confident that the Synapse version will, and am going that route when the funds are available. I know that many have waited patiently to see how this turns out, and I will keep ya'll up to date...
In the mean time, do anyone have a mm74c140n they would be willing to part with. I do have a board for the current serge tkb and would like to test it.
It is my opinion here that a digitally controlled version with analog outputs would be more reliable and accurate...
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

akrearke wrote:
In the mean time, do anyone have a mm74c140n they would be willing to part with.


I did search some time ago for a source for this chip and its more as impossible to find.

I think your waste your time using this part.

STS have probably some spare...
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zthee



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://cgi.ebay.com/74C150-Integrated-Circuit-x-1-pieces-/380248835053?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item588898c3ed

Not cheap though.

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