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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » ChucK programming language
Online Audio Collaboration
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Gabrielg



Joined: Aug 02, 2008
Posts: 23
Location: seattle

PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: Online Audio Collaboration
Subject description: Online Audio Collaboration
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Hello everyone I'm looking at Hosting up a Site that lets users of chuck join up and play and perform together if anyone intrested please let me know

i can be contacted through g-talk at gabrielg1976@gmail.com

chat with everyone later

Gabriel
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Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
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Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I might be interested in this, how does it work?
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witt0191



Joined: Feb 13, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would also be interested
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm interested. I think it's a great idea but will either need some trust in the users of this site or some relatively fundamental changes in ChucK. Many things can be said about ChucK but not that it's optimised to be a stable and secure platform for anonymous collaboration; powertools can maim...
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kijjaz



Joined: Sep 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What is your easy way for using Jack on linux/mac (or actually windows heheheh)
to broadcast sounds into a chatroom we all can meet?

Ehh... actually..
If we'd like to chat live and hear out some stuffs,
IRC is a good start, but we might wanna have some kind of a teleconference with audio support.
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Gabrielg



Joined: Aug 02, 2008
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Location: seattle

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:35 pm    Post subject: What My Plans Are for live Collaborations Via Internet
Subject description: What My Plans Are for live Collaborations Via Internet
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I'm Working on setting up a Linux server running ChucK I plan on posting up links for others to log on to the server at desinated times to join in a perform
It will be website based so you have to login and choose which chat room you like to connect to kinda like sign in to play online games at first there will ony be one performance chat room but Im hoping that more people will get involved and I can increase the number of performance rooms.

i hope this explains better what im working on

Gabriel G
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gabrielg, will I be able to run my MAUI-based ChucK application on it?
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Gabrielg



Joined: Aug 02, 2008
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Location: seattle

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Im hoping...
Subject description: I'm hoping to..
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Yes I'm hoping to make it so all of chuck options and functions Like MAUI to work in the online setting ... Im going to start some test runs in the next week or so..
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kijjaz



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow.. sounds really cool.
i still can't imagine how do we do it and what it may bring hehheh.
fight fight.
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Stream Operator


Joined: Oct 13, 2007
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Location: San Antonio, Tx, USA
Audio files: 258

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kijjaz wrote:
wow.. sounds really cool.
i still can't imagine how do we do it and what it may bring hehheh.
fight fight.


fight fight? Kijjaz, I challenge you to a battle of the sounds! haha. No, just kidding. ChucK at 30 keystrokes! haha.

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Dandroid



Joined: Aug 11, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been lurking on these forums for awhile now, especially here on the ChucK forum. This topic forced me to register. Has anybody ever heard of NINJAM? It's an open source, multiplatform client and server that allows people to "jam" over the Internet.

Check it out at: http://ninjam.com/

We could all run our ChucK binaries through the NINJAM client, or we could SSH into a ChucK/NINJAM server. I think the latter is more logical.

Either way, a collaborative ChucK server is a great idea.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Welcome, Dandroid!

Some notes; in principle a ChucK VM can listen for incoming commands and you can link your copy of ChucK to a external VM. This is a great start already but one link I feel is missing is a way to ask a running shred for the code it's based on. To me this would seem like a logical extension; both code as musical expression and collaboration are core ChucKian values to me. To me a real jam session would involve being able to mark a shred as being open to being edited by others... but how would they get this code? Right now they can't.

On a technological level this could be related to a smaller granularity in being able to update running code but it's also not entirely clear to me how this would work on a interface level without demanding the involvement of the dedicated editors.

Some hard questions but I think this would be a good direction to move in.

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renderful



Joined: Apr 18, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:17 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is an absolutely great idea, which ChucK really lends itself to.

Kassen made some great points. The fact that inter-VM communication is possible, makes the idea instantly plausible. I agree that the nature of ChucK, suggests that the source must available to other performers.(and I like the idea myself).

The client for this system, could potentially handle the source updates/transfer, rather than extending ChucK. An extension of miniAudicle might be a more logical solution.

A good look at the PLOrk(http://plork.cs.princeton.edu/) and SLOrk(http://slork.stanford.edu/) workflow should allow this idea to be refined, and bring out some talking points.

I've got lots of experience with Linux as a server, high availability/scalable hosting and general Linux hackery. So I'd be up to help out on that end, as well as the concept as a whole.

Love the idea, Gabrielg! Thanks for the NINJAM link, Dandroid!
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Gabrielg



Joined: Aug 02, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Checking out NINJam Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank Dandroid for the link to ninjam IM currently checking out now

I was wondering about doing some test runs in the next few days and was wondering if anyone wanted to help out and when they be avaible to do some online jamming ?

thanks all Later Gabriel
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Checking out NINJam Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gabrielg wrote:
I was wondering about doing some test runs in the next few days and was wondering if anyone wanted to help out and when they be avaible to do some online jamming ?


I am up all kinds of crazy hours and tend to sleep in the daytime, so strange as it may sound it is difficult for me to schedule appointments. However, in the next few days I have to try to be awake in the afternoon to receive a UPS shipment, so I'd say shoot for like 3pm or 5pm or something like that. Or perhaps early evening when people are off work like 7pm or so.

It's always difficult to get people together on a chat. It's best to have the chat always available and then develop enough of a population that all can jam. Anyway, I'll try to make whatever time you shredule.

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kijjaz



Joined: Sep 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm gonna be online very often and usually I'll stand by on #chuck in freenode irc.
Please let me know what day we'll gather. let's try something soon heheh.
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Mr Theremin



Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 21
Location: Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Internet Jam
Subject description: Internet jam with ChucK
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Very exciting idea.

Have you considered some type of avatar support for the musician/participants? Watching what the other members of a jam are doing is an important part of the process. For instance, if I see someone’s virtual hands reaching for the virtual chuck conga drums, I will back off and listen to the new rhythm before I decide how I can contribute. If each participant only adds chuck code to the mix we will have a chaotic cacophony after a few minutes.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's a interesting idea. At the the Audicle has some foundations for avatar support with the "dude" but I'm not sure how my avatar would be know I'm "reaching for the congas" based on some lines I would be writing.

Why not have displays of the text participants are editing like with video conferencing? I could imagine things like me writing a conga line, then sending the text window to your section of the screen or you asking me for it so you could then edit my code. I feel seeing what people are writing is the closest we can get to seeing what instrument they are reaching for... In some ways this is limited but I could also see strengths to it, for example one person could help another person "reach" if he sees him running into syntax difficulties.

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Gabrielg



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah Ive been trying to figure out the best approach to this problem of voiding creating mass chaos and making it more interactive like visually seeing some sorta Avatar that display of what other are doing are about to do so I figure most people here are MAC users and or have web cams maybe that work or creating a external chat out side of the code be sent.

I figure im going to have to write some code to make all this run smoothly and learn more about the ChucK Core to make this work...

well Im getting back to figure all this out I'll start using chuck IRC chat
just need to get a IRC client for my Mac

later everyone
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I currently participate in a free chatroom that has video and audio using webcams and microphones. The software is excellent and you really get to know the people better than in a text chatroom, plus you can show off jewelry, wear funny hats and we even once played charades.

This group (I don't know who sponsors them) have several other chatrooms that are usually empty. We could ask them to set up a music chatroom for us perhaps, or just find a good one and meet there.

Also, with the audio capabilities, technically we don't even need a chuck server at all. Of course audio quality of a mic'ed speaker is not optimal, but we can do routing with Jack or SoundFlower to get great quality. The mic'ed speaker is nice because you can just talk on top of the music.

This new technology is the cat's meow and it's free for us to use. Bonus!

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Acoustic Interloper



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How does NINJAM or similar deal with cross-net latency while jamming? Seems to me you have to take this into account to genuinely jam. There's a related thread over here that needs some technology for a Winter Solstice jam.

EDIT: I just scanned the NINJAM site, question answered in some general sense! I'd like to play at some point!

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Gabrielg wrote:
I figure most people here are MAC users and or have web cams maybe that work or creating a external chat out side of the code be sent.


I was getting the impression the forum is split roughly equally between Linux, Mac and Windows with a fair amount of people running two of them on different computers.

Video and audio chat would be interesting but I think I'm primarily interested in text based chat for this because sending code over text is such a natural thing to do.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
Video and audio chat would be interesting but I think I'm primarily interested in text based chat for this because sending code over text is such a natural thing to do.


This site is a combination of text, audio, and video. Users have complete control over which of the three media they would like to utilize. Sometimes there is nobody on cam, sometimes 10 people (max limit of 10). The text, however, is not suitable for code transfer - just for chatting.

I'm ok with text-only chat too. Perhaps the signalling of who will play next will evolve into some kind of shortcut verbage like lol, imho, etc.

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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not sure I understand how you can have text that's not suitable for code transfer. Is it cleaned of certain characters or something?

I'd really like to be able to send code to you for you to edit, run and send back, kinda like those stories where you take turns writing a sentence, except in real time. I'm also speculating (but this would have to be tested) that multiple people sharing a single editing buffer in some way would lead to less cacophony then everybody adding their own files on their own.

I'm envisioning something like the Audicle extended to be a multi-user environment and borrowing some concepts from multi user Unix servers. I'd for example like everybody to "own" one or two editing buffers but be able to mark them for privileges, for example to put one up to be taken by anybody that would like to edit it. I'm also imagining the ability to ask people for access to their buffers, perhaps even to the extend of having a single buffer with two text cursors. We could think about having somebody be root/conductor/moderator to avoid potential social and/or musical snafu's. Basically like a centralisation of the laptop orchestra idea on a technological level but a decentralisation on a geographical one, borrowing liberally from social networks and Unix.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The text is filtered for special characters, web urls, and profanity. Also you can only type one line at a time. There is no concept of a file from the user's perspective. So that's why this site would not be suitable for code transfer.
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