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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
4089 rate multiplier experiment!!!
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loss1234



Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: nyc
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 10:01 am    Post subject: 4089 rate multiplier experiment!!! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i read a a tip in ELECTRONOTES which said that putting a rapidly changing DIGIT(abcd) into the 4089 (via the output of a counter) would cause ring modulation TYPE of sounds to come out of the 4089

or even bell or trumpet sounds! (though they show a far more complex setup for that)

so

here is a test i did (sorry no samples..but i was very impressed)


4089 weirdness

ok...by taking a 4024, which is fed with a sawtooth wave from a VCLFO

or a VCO (which is itself being swept or modulated by an lfo or a

WOGGLEBUG or something which causes the fast change of digits into the

ABCD inputs of the 4089....so pick 4 outs from the 4024 and plug them in to ABCD on the 4089...you can try changing them during the experiment for different patterns

the 4089 is also being fed (into its clock in) by a pretty high sawwave (from

another vco..but it is fixed) and then the output of the 4089 is then fed into a

multiple so that one half of it can be fed into a MIXER (to hear) and also then into a

quantizer...the quantizer is set for regular divisions, with the

initial voltage at about 50% (middle of the pots turn)...the output of

this is then fed into the final vco's 1v/oct input.

some very odd stuff can be acheived. everything from ring mod stuff (from the audio half) to

weird sample and hold-ish sounds. it takes some real fine tuning of the pitch to the 4024 (and of the pitch to the 4089) to get the quantizer actually doing anything. becuase keep in mind, the quantizer only starts making notes with the right input. which is why i split the output in 2, so even when the quantizer is not doing anything, i can stil hear something, and as time went on, i could start figuring out what i needed to do to get the notes spitting out.

successful for sure. it just takes a lot of parts

1 lfo or 1 wogglebug (woggle works better..or smoothed sample and hold)
2 vcos (one for the input of each chip 4089/4024)
the inputs of the 4089 a/b/c/d come from the outs of the 4024
1 mixer
1 quantizer
1 4089
1 4024

and most likely a filter and a vca and an ADSR

lots of fun


thanks

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robthefiddler



Joined: Nov 10, 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Dallas, Tx

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 1:12 am    Post subject: My experiments with the 4089 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here are my samples for the 4089. Its an interesting chip. Would be a good addition to a lunetta. I made a stab at what my lunetta circuit would look like, but its low on my priorities to implement.
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richardc64



Joined: Jun 01, 2006
Posts: 673
Location: NYC
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't hear anything. I tried in IE, Opera and Firefox.

Is a simple mp3 link too much to ask for?

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fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 708
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

richardc64 wrote:
I don't hear anything. I tried in IE, Opera and Firefox.

Is a simple mp3 link too much to ask for?


worked for me, thanks rob. money back if not satisfied, richard.
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bingmachine



Joined: Jan 23, 2009
Posts: 19
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi!

Does anyone know how you would go about to use this chip as an ADC, as the datasheet suggests?

/Erik Forsling
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cthulu



Joined: Feb 07, 2009
Posts: 56
Location: Göteborg, Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tjena!

D/A conversion is simply feeding the outputs to an R/C filter (one resistor each) and A/D conversion starts with D/A conversion and a comparator.
This circuit is hardly meant for advanced or fast conversion but more to use for simple and cheap potentiometer reading.
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robthefiddler



Joined: Nov 10, 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Dallas, Tx

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: Old Chip Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

From the spec, I read:


This device may be used in conjunction with an up/down counter and control logic used to perform arithmetic operations (adds, subtract, divide, raise to a power), solve algebraic and differential equations, generate natural logarithms and trigometric functions, A/D and D/A conversions, and frequency division.

Its a pretty old school chip (70s?) and the intent that I got was that it can be used to pretty much do math in place of a CPU. Assuming that you only need to do one or two equations, it might be simpler (and faster) to just hardwire the circuit rather than deal with a CPU (which were not all that fast)

Here is a link to a patent that uses it in conjunction with A/D and D/A

http://www.patentgenius.com/patent/4595910.html

It uses the 4089 to create effectively a Digital to Duty Cycle converter. From there, you use the R/C circuit to get it back to Analog as cthulu explained.

Ha det so Bra!

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bingmachine



Joined: Jan 23, 2009
Posts: 19
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Laughing Ha-ha! Someone has been practicing his swedish, I think! Cool.

Anyway, thanks for all the input, guys. I've come to the conclusion that I won't be including the 4089 in my own Lunetta design. Might include an extra counter though, together with a couple of (analog) comparators. Would be nice to do be able to do some sampling/bit-crunch stuff.

/Erik
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amplex



Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 64
Location: sacramento, ca
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

how could you not want to add this to a lunetta setup? besides the fact that it is basically another rate divider based on the input 4bit word, but i think sending some quick rhythmic words could get some interesting results in a complex patch, so basically this chip is functioning as a frequency remover .. how is that not useful?
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If I could get one of them locally, I'd pick one up and play with it. Shall have to wait until I put in an order from Digikey. (Not soon enough. Sad )
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droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 508
Location: London area
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't seem to find it locally, kinda strange
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sizone



Joined: Jun 09, 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Honolulu HI
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahh I remember this thread now. The datasheet that revealed the extent of my ignorance. The part that I don't get is the relation between (what I presume to be) the outputs from the counter and the inputs to the 5 and gates immediately to the right of it. What's the deal with the bar over some of the variable names? Inversion?

http://electro-music.com/forum/phpbb-files/4089_202.jpg

(page "1070" from the intersil sheet)


4089.JPG
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sizone wrote:
What's the deal with the bar over some of the variable names? Inversion?


I believe Qa with a bar over it is "Not Qa"

bruce

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