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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Strings and things
Splitting the signal from my acoustic guitar
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Oskar



Joined: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1750
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:08 am    Post subject: Splitting the signal from my acoustic guitar
Subject description: Need advice!
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I'm constantly fiddling with my acoustic-electric setup, and now I feel like experimenting with a tip my very good friend Andreas Aase gave me: From the pickup output, run the signal into a splitter, one path which you send the usual route - DI to mixer. The other path you route either via a valve (or tube if you're not British) amp like a Fender Twin, Vox AC30 or a Roland JC120 - at least an amp that runs reasonably clean, or a good amp simulator like a POD or whichever you prefer, set to a cleanish sound. At the mixing desk, you take the DI signal and scoop out the mids, while you remove the bass and treble from the Amp signal, thus creating a sound with crisp, clean highs and lows, but with a nice little "growl" to the mids. Apparently, this technique for some reason makes the piezo pickups sound more "realistic" - pure voodoo of course, but it does sound fantastic!
Now, I've got most of the stuff I need to do this, but I need advice on splitters, as the ones I've found have been the common or garden variety at best. I need a splitter device that doesn't compromise the signal, and which gives workable levels for both the DI and the amp to work with.

My current setup:

Takamine PT05ECBL - LR Baggs Para DI - Soundcraft Spirit M12 mixer. I have a POD XTLive and a Fender Champ that I may use for the "growl" bit.

Here are a coupla links to my very good friend, the string wizard:



http://www.andreasaase.com/Frames.htm


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=146145702

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can't you just send the DI signal from the mixer to the amp and back again?
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does´t the DI have a "through" output?
It is quite possible to plug the through into a second DI.

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Oskar



Joined: Jul 29, 2004
Posts: 1750
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
Can't you just send the DI signal from the mixer to the amp and back again?


I've tried it, it sounds slightly out-of-phase. I'm terribly finicky, I'm afraid!

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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Does´t the DI have a "through" output?
It is quite possible to plug the through into a second DI.


It does, I may try that, but I'm fearful it might compromise the signal chain somehow. Oh Hell, I should just get on with rocking out, shouldn't I? Cool

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What frequencies are you using to for the mid range?
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Oskar



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BobTheDog wrote:
What frequencies are you using to for the mid range?


Haven't tried it for a few years, so I'll have to fiddle around a bit, suppose I should get some sort of external EQ to insert in at least the amp channel, possibly even the DI channel. We shall see anon.

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I have given it a try using an electric pickup and having the mid at 500Hz-2.5Khz, I then put the mid through a moderate gain amp and the low and high through a clean amp and it sounds interesting.

This is all done with software in Live with the basic EQ3 and Waves Gtr plugins.

I will play a bit with the frequencies to see how it plays out and also try it with my nylon, steel string acoustics are not for me!
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Inventor
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pardon me for sounding stoopid, but are you just wanting a 1/4" Y connection? Funny coincidence, I just bought one from Radio Shack. it's a compact little unit with a 1/4" male plug on one side and two 1/4" female jacks on the other side. That may not be quite what you need, though.

There are a variety of adapter cables available at your favorite music store, online or otherwise. Something tells me that I'm way off the mark here because this is too simple to be a problem for gearheads like us! Enlighten me, did you want a signal processing box of some sort or just an adapter cable?

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Oskar



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Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Pardon me for sounding stoopid, but are you just wanting a 1/4" Y connection? Funny coincidence, I just bought one from Radio Shack. it's a compact little unit with a 1/4" male plug on one side and two 1/4" female jacks on the other side. That may not be quite what you need, though.

There are a variety of adapter cables available at your favorite music store, online or otherwise. Something tells me that I'm way off the mark here because this is too simple to be a problem for gearheads like us! Enlighten me, did you want a signal processing box of some sort or just an adapter cable?


Not stoopid, but I have learned the hard way that Y plugs and suchlike are dangerous to use in a live situation, as they tend to mess up the signal or just break. I have learned to avoid cheap leads and DI boxes, as they compromise the signal - which actually makes for some interesting sounds, but not necessarily the type of sonic anomalies you'd want in front of three hundred beer drinkers! Or fifty connoisseurs...

What I'm looking for is something active and true(ish) bypass, a bit like my Lehle ABC channel selector.

http://www.lehle.com/frameset.php?country=no&lang=en&A_Link=products


Come to think, Lehle might actually have the solution, albeit a bit expensive - but like I said, I've learned the hard way not to save money on the signal path!

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oskar wrote:
elektro80 wrote:
Does´t the DI have a "through" output?
It is quite possible to plug the through into a second DI.


It does, I may try that, but I'm fearful it might compromise the signal chain somehow. Oh Hell, I should just get on with rocking out, shouldn't I? Cool


The tone control probably fucks up the signal more. Anyways, no... that is what the "thru" output is for. if the DI is pro, then this traditionally should work as a split. It has always been like that.

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BobTheDog



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How about an active DI box with two outs like the Behringer DI20 Ultra DI http://www.behringer.com/DI20/index.cfm?lang=ENG , cheap as chips.
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