electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  Jez Adventures in Sound
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Living VCOs
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites
Page 2 of 21 [516 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 19, 20, 21 Next

Would you prefer one PCB with 3 VCOs a la JH-5A, or 1 VCO per PCB with more features
One PCB with Oscillator Driver and 3 VCO cores (like JH-5A - cheap!)
60%
 60%  [ 62 ]
1 PCB = 1 VCO (with many waveforms and inputs)
39%
 39%  [ 40 ]
Total Votes : 102

Author Message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's the frontpanel of the JH-5A, which shows what features a combination od Oscillator Driver + 3 VCOs would have.

JH.

Now playing: Tori Amos, American Doll Posse


jh5_front.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  jh5_front.pdf
 Filesize:  119.9 KB
 Downloaded:  415 Time(s)


_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Blue Hell
Site Admin


Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 20587
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 148
G2 patch files: 318

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Is there a way to add a poll on a thread that's already in use?


Yes, by editing the first post of the thread.

_________________
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
jhaible wrote:
Is there a way to add a poll on a thread that's already in use?


Yes, by editing the first post of the thread.


Thank you!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Poll added - please vote!

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i voted for single as it makes more sense to me
however now i think about it almost all modules in my synth are duals or quads so perhaps im easy either way

_________________
problemchild
melbourne australia
http://cycleofproblems.blogspot.com/
http://www.last.fm/user/prblmchild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
/mr



Joined: Aug 05, 2007
Posts: 223
Location: Elektron City, Sweden
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
vtl5c3 wrote:
I'm interested. Are we talking one VCO per board or more?
Romeo

That's a good question.
Depends on how many waveforms you need.
In the JH-5, there's only saw and pulse (with PWM) and one Oscillator Driver controlling 3 VCO cores. This can be very compact. Maybe (maybe!) 3 VCOs on a single 27 Euro PCB.
If you want full fledged VCOs with all waveforms and all kind of modulation inputs, it's probably one VCO per board.

Given that linear detune is mostly useful when more than one VCO signal is combined, and that many users can lose the point if the module is a single VCO, I definitely think this design would be best with a dual or triple unit. For me that feels much more valuable than having all kinds of sugar on it. Smile

I've been thinking of different variants of the theme... for instance a dual oscillator with a common Detune pot that tunes the VCOs in opposite directions, and a Balance pot that sets their relative amplitude AND keeps them in "weighted well-tunedness" by tuning them so that the louder "heavier" VCO is closer to the base frequency. If you get my point. Laughing

The reason for balancing them to different amplitudes could be the probably well-know fact that the fundamental (or bass, or "body") component of the sound fades in and out if you sum two similar waves with slight detuning. Then I thought about the possibility to have the lower harmonics coming from one single un-detuned VCO and the higher ones from two or more linearly detuned VCOs. The "detune sound" would then appear in the range at the top where it's good to have it, and the bass/body range is stable and solid. The HP/LP filters between the two ranges would probably need to follow the VCOs pitch though, which might make it less straightforward in analogue hardware...

Another solution for this would be to only have the very fundamental coming from one sine VCO, and then add a couple of linearly detuned VCOs with their fundamentals removed. This is actually very doable, and I realize just now when writing this that maybe that's what you should try if you want to add a new invention to it? Very Happy

(CS-50 owners of the world unite - we all know how good it is to add the sinewave bottom after finishing the creamy goodies at the top)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sebo



Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Posts: 540
Location: Argentina

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A triple VCO is very appealing to me.
[/quote]

_________________
Sebo
---------------------------------------
My Music:
www.cosaquitosenglobo.com.ar
www.myspace.com/cosaquitosenglobo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dego



Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Posts: 139
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo wrote:
A triple VCO is very appealing to me.
[/quote]

I want one!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 980
Location: Austin, TX
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I voted for the triple VCO as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
a_guy_called_tom



Joined: Jun 21, 2008
Posts: 31
Location: mountains

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i would be very interested (2-4 vcos), assuming it works with +- 12 volts, the pcb is small enough for eurorack and there aren't any really hard to get parts needed.
sounds like a great project!
tom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mono-poly



Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 935
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd love to see a Buchla 158 or 144 like vco.
Simple vco with 1 waveform output.
But great fm and/or am sound.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mono-poly wrote:
I'd love to see a Buchla 158 or 144 like vco.
Simple vco with 1 waveform output.
But great fm and/or am sound.

I proposed doing this several months ago, but there wasn't much interest:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-28713.html
I guess if it doesn't say M... or B..... it's gonna get killed by the fanatics.

Very Happy

Ian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bugfight



Joined: Aug 02, 2007
Posts: 188
Location: Arlington, TX USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hehe which fanatic will try to kill the "living" vco?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mono-poly



Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 935
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
mono-poly wrote:
I'd love to see a Buchla 158 or 144 like vco.
Simple vco with 1 waveform output.
But great fm and/or am sound.

I proposed doing this several months ago, but there wasn't much interest:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-28713.html
I guess if it doesn't say M... or B..... it's gonna get killed by the fanatics.

Very Happy

Ian


Hmm Ian

That might be interesting for me.
Someow i did mis that.
Do you want me to make some examples with fm and am on some old Buchla ones?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johans121



Joined: Jun 19, 2007
Posts: 174
Location: Memphis, TN (USA)

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be interested in both JH's & Ian's. More VCO's the better.
_________________
Don't feed me Indian, you WILL regret it!

-Jim
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1106
Location: Loss Angeles
Audio files: 3

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
mono-poly wrote:
I'd love to see a Buchla 158 or 144 like vco.
Simple vco with 1 waveform output.
But great fm and/or am sound.

I proposed doing this several months ago, but there wasn't much interest:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-28713.html
I guess if it doesn't say M... or B..... it's gonna get killed by the fanatics.

Very Happy

Ian


Or E... or O... or SSM... or T... or... well, you get the idea...

And what oscillators AREN'T living???? You use the "living" adjective to describe something desirable...as opposed to something undesirable??

_________________
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid. -mwagener

"IC 741. Sometimes you don't want fidelity." -Small Bear Electronics Catalog
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:

And what oscillators AREN'T living???? You use the "living" adjective to describe something desirable...as opposed to something undesirable??


Don't think of it as an adjective in the first place - it's intended to be a *name*. I like it better than "JH-5A, VCO section".
The first post in this thread describes the idea behind it.
These will be *cheap* VCOs: unexpensive components, 3 VCOs on a single PCB (if I follow the poll), not the best precision that could otherwise be achieved, but with some design details that may (or maybe may not) make them interesting for a few people nevertheless.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
numbernone



Joined: Aug 16, 2006
Posts: 477
Location: new york city

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am interested in several triples if "cheap" falls into my definition.

Oh hell I would probably take several regardless.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:

Or E... or O... or SSM... or T... or... well, you get the idea...

Yes, loud and clear. You are going to dump on *anything* new.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

numbernone wrote:
I am interested in several triples if "cheap" falls into my definition.

Oh hell I would probably take several regardless.


If I go for it, it probably will be the usual 160mm x 100mm board for 27.00 EUR.

If I don't get 3 VCOs on such a board, I'll probably go for 2 on the same size.
(It's not just a matter of how densely I can populate the boards, but also of preventing them from unwanted sync effects.)

I think 27.00 EUR would be a good price even for 2 VCOs per board - but my goal is 3.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

2 vco's on one pcb is ideal Juergen,but would be perfect if u just could add sine for both 2 on the pcb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tenine



Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Coventry

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks pretty interesting to me!
This could be a nice first module that follows the 1V/Oct standard.

What sort of parts will be needed?
Just standard op-amps or OTAs? Anything that's hard to find outside Europe?

Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tenine



Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Coventry

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Looks pretty interesting to me!
This could be a nice first module that follows the 1V/Oct standard.

What sort of parts will be needed?
Just standard op-amps or OTAs? Anything that's hard to find outside Europe?

Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tenine wrote:
Looks pretty interesting to me!
This could be a nice first module that follows the 1V/Oct standard.

What sort of parts will be needed?
Just standard op-amps or OTAs? Anything that's hard to find outside Europe?

Thanks.


No special parts, as far as I can tell now.
I have to look inside what I've built to check what transistors I've actually used, but the simulation files show the trusty old BC550C and BC560C everywhere.
You will need a differential pair per VCO, of course.
I'll provide footprints for different options here.
The Oscillator Driver in what I've built has a 3080 OTA for aftertouch-controlled vibrato, but it's easy to replace this with something less obsolete in the PCB version.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)

Last edited by jhaible on Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 696
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i polled in for 1-osc-per-board... altho i'd probably build a set, my thinking is that separate boards would make the physical build easier: i usually have lots of ins and out on my oscillators (multiple modulations etc) and the number of flying wires can get pretty ratsnest; individual boards would help divide and conquer that confusion.

along the same lines, i also find it helpful to have the modulation ins and the outputs routed to headers that are physically proximate, and ideally near the edge of the board... again, for sanity in construction. board-mounted pots sometimes serve the same idea, but aren't as useful to me 'cause i build in frac and most such pots are spaced for 5u... but its sort of the same idea. of couse, this is secondary to requirments to electically isolate sections from crosscoupling, etc.

just my input, j. in any event i'm in for this. much appreciated as always!

b

_________________
www.fluxmonkey.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites
Page 2 of 21 [516 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 19, 20, 21 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use