electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
  mosc Back on the air tonight - Twyndyllyngs
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Living VCOs
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites
Page 17 of 21 [516 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 Next

Would you prefer one PCB with 3 VCOs a la JH-5A, or 1 VCO per PCB with more features
One PCB with Oscillator Driver and 3 VCO cores (like JH-5A - cheap!)
60%
 60%  [ 62 ]
1 PCB = 1 VCO (with many waveforms and inputs)
39%
 39%  [ 40 ]
Total Votes : 102

Author Message
The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 255
Location: The Manhole

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks! Yes I do, but as it is not my circuit, as it were, not sure about the ethics of posting such a thing...?

It needs a bit of work to make it into a PDF though, so maybe I'll do that and in the meantime make an enquiry to the relevant peeps as to whether I can post it here...

charlie

EDIT - Doug says that is cool, so I'll post it up, tomorrow hopefully...

_________________
http://loudestwarning.tumblr.com/
http://soundcloud.com/thebadproducer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JoeMorris



Joined: Apr 26, 2009
Posts: 160
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice one. id like to add those capabilities to my living vcos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LetterBeacon



Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 454
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great news!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 255
Location: The Manhole

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Might be Monday now, I left my hard drive at work! Embarassed
_________________
http://loudestwarning.tumblr.com/
http://soundcloud.com/thebadproducer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
LetterBeacon



Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 454
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Bad Producer wrote:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Whereabouts did you get the frequency knobs and the linear detune knobs from? They look great!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 255
Location: The Manhole

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The linear detune knobs are Davies 1910CS :

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=5431916

The frequency knobs are Davies 1610AA:

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=5431610

Both available from Allied Electronics, they do lots of other nice knobs too!

Close up:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

_________________
http://loudestwarning.tumblr.com/
http://soundcloud.com/thebadproducer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that is where i get mine from also
shipping is killer to australia though

_________________
problemchild
melbourne australia
http://cycleofproblems.blogspot.com/
http://www.last.fm/user/prblmchild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 255
Location: The Manhole

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay, got my hard drive and the files.

I've attached the stripboard layout for Electronic Peasants Waveshaper, also on the PDF is a stripboard layout for the pulse amplifier, copied from JH's schematic for the saw output. I have not included decoupling caps, I just used a couple of 10uF electro's and a couple of 100NF on the power rails.

Please double check everything, I have built quite a few of these, but there may still be errors. Also, I used multiturn in-line trimpots, it gets a bit tight with these - I wanted the layout to be as small as possible - so double check that the ones you have will fit.

Another thing I noticed when I tested the first one, if you haven't got all the trimmers (esp the saw offset) set correctly there will be no output, I went through prodding with the oscilloscope as I went to calibrate it, but it does work and works very well too!

Charlie

PS I hope you don't mind the graphic 'style' it seems clear to me!
PPS The schematic is from Electronic Peasants post on page 12 of this thread...


Living VCO Waveshaper Stripboard.pdf
 Description:
Living VCO add-on

Download
 Filename:  Living VCO Waveshaper Stripboard.pdf
 Filesize:  103.21 KB
 Downloaded:  392 Time(s)


_________________
http://loudestwarning.tumblr.com/
http://soundcloud.com/thebadproducer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
LetterBeacon



Joined: Mar 18, 2008
Posts: 454
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's perfect - thank you very much!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that is the best stipboard layout ever charlie
_________________
problemchild
melbourne australia
http://cycleofproblems.blogspot.com/
http://www.last.fm/user/prblmchild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 255
Location: The Manhole

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks!
Made a track using just Living VCO's (and some envelopes etc - no filters though)

here:

http://soundcloud.com/thebadproducer/stranglehold

I quite like the hissing and bass etc...

(its not a bad recording that is the VCO's too... VHF I guess... I like)

_________________
http://loudestwarning.tumblr.com/
http://soundcloud.com/thebadproducer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Bad Producer wrote:
Thanks!
Made a track using just Living VCO's (and some envelopes etc - no filters though)

here:

http://soundcloud.com/thebadproducer/stranglehold

I quite like the hissing and bass etc...

(its not a bad recording that is the VCO's too... VHF I guess... I like)


The noises fit beautifully into the musical context, but for general use you should get rid of them, I guess. Do you have bypass caps on the opamps of your waveshaper board?

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 255
Location: The Manhole

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, I have bypass caps on the waveshapers (they're not on the stripboard layout though).

It is quite interesting the noise - I have no idea where it comes from, maybe you would understand this more?

Basically they only occur when I set the frequency 10 turn pot all the way up as far as it will go and then use CV to send the frequency higher with a gate or trigger, if the frequency knob is even slightly away from fully CW it does not happen - I always thought it was some kind of glitch with the wirewound 10 turn pots?

But as I said, it never occurs in normal operation, they are clean as you like!

I quite like it though, I stumbled across it when I tried processing a friends guitar through the FM input and seeing what happened... It also reminds me a bit of Pole, who - legend has it - dropped his filter unit and when he turned it on again created all those pops and clicks which defined his oeuvre... So maybe it isn't supposed to do that!

I repaired a friends Plan B Elf LFO recently and that also goes VHF a bit like this, but not so 'musically' Very Happy

_________________
http://loudestwarning.tumblr.com/
http://soundcloud.com/thebadproducer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
jumunius



Joined: Apr 19, 2010
Posts: 346
Location: San Francisco, CA
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Bad Producer wrote:
Basically they only occur when I set the frequency 10 turn pot all the way up as far as it will go and then use CV to send the frequency higher with a gate or trigger, if the frequency knob is even slightly away from fully CW it does not happen - I always thought it was some kind of glitch with the wirewound 10 turn pots?

But as I said, it never occurs in normal operation, they are clean as you like!


I must say I am relieved that you clarified this. I knew the Living VCOs were supposed to be "imperfect" in terms of tracking, but I expected better signal to noise ratio than your track implied. As a proud owner of two empty boards, I'm glad to hear that even if it is normal behavior, it's only occurring at an abnormal setting.

Other than that I quite enjoyed your glitchy noise bursts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
Posts: 255
Location: The Manhole

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, Just to clarify, they sound amazingly clean, track well etc, in fact the ideal oscillators! There is no 'noise' in normal useage at all... eg the sub-bass is from the same Living VCO unit playing at the same time, no noise there!

I just found this odd 'function' (well odd and new to me!) which as I said, seems to be a glitch with the pots I'm using and using the osc (with FM) at extreme high frequencies (at least that is how it looks to me!)

_________________
http://loudestwarning.tumblr.com/
http://soundcloud.com/thebadproducer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
defex



Joined: Jun 27, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Toronto, canada

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a quick question. I am not using the linear detune input on the second oscillator, can the input be left floating? or should i put a jumper on that connector to ground?

In this version I have a mix control/amplifier between saw/pulse of each section, and the individual outs are normalled to the FM inputs in a 1-2 2-3 3-1 fashion.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

so far each osc has been tested and working, i am just finishing up the mixer/amplifier part and the lots and lots of wiring!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

defex wrote:
Just a quick question. I am not using the linear detune input on the second oscillator, can the input be left floating? or should i put a jumper on that connector to ground?


You can leave that open.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
defex



Joined: Jun 27, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Toronto, canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you for the quick reply!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
defex



Joined: Jun 27, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Toronto, canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Although not as ambitious as the waveshaper, I have replaced the saw/pulse switches with 50k pots, and it is well worth it, you can fade between saw and pulse for each oscillator.

(it has screwed up the text of my lovely FPE panel, but worth it for the extra feature)

just connect each end of the pot to where it says "pulse" and "saw" on wiring option 3, and the wiper to the common side of the switch.

this will probably only work if you are using wiring option 3 because you would end up with a high impedance output if the pot was not in front of the "amp" sections.

If using BL conductive plastic pots, they do not go all the way down to 0 ohms (the ones i tried anyways) so you get a little tiny bit of pulse left on the saw even when it is cranked all the way over to "saw", with carbon pots it did not happen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
defex



Joined: Jun 27, 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Toronto, canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yet another question. Rolling Eyes

I have decided to cut or switch the connection between the LFO to the CV out of the main pitch CV section (r142), and use it for a PWM LFO instead (with a separate buffer like the U11b Drvout one) but i want to slow down the LFO , I am guessing i can just increase the value of c31 to accomplish that, is that correct?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

defex wrote:
Yet another question. Rolling Eyes

I have decided to cut or switch the connection between the LFO to the CV out of the main pitch CV section (r142), and use it for a PWM LFO instead (with a separate buffer like the U11b Drvout one) but i want to slow down the LFO , I am guessing i can just increase the value of c31 to accomplish that, is that correct?


It's fairly trivial to build an LFO that covers a wide frequency range - but *this* war especially tailored to have a small frequency range, dedicated to typical Vibrato applications.
You can always make an LFO slower by increasing the integration cap, or integration resistor. But that won't defeat the (intentional) range limitation - you'd just scale the whole range down.
So if you want to (ab)use that generator as a general purpose wide-range LFO, 1st thing is vastly increasing R151. Try 10Meg here, and only if it's still too fast for your taste, increase C31.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kjackman



Joined: Sep 05, 2010
Posts: 69
Location: Utah, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A bit of a newbie here, so bear with me...

CA3046 is increasingly hard to find these days, and I'm guessing it's just going to get harder as time goes on. Would a precisely matched pair of general-purpose NPN transistors, connected as a differential pair, in thermal contact, work just as well? For example, two 2N3904s Vbe-matched to within 1mV, with thermal compound between them and tied together with a cable tie? I'd have to thermally connect them to the Tempco as well, of course...

Also, what does connecting pin 13 of U2 (the "substrate") do? Schematically, this is just the emitter of Q5, which is not used in your circuit.

I know I can get 3046's from Bridechamber for $1 (today, yes; tomorrow? Who knows!). I Just want to make sure we can continue to build and maintain these VCOs long after the apocalypse, when the zombies hoard the last of our precious analog ICs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kjackman wrote:
A bit of a newbie here, so bear with me...

CA3046 is increasingly hard to find these days, and I'm guessing it's just going to get harder as time goes on. Would a precisely matched pair of general-purpose NPN transistors, connected as a differential pair, in thermal contact, work just as well? For example, two 2N3904s Vbe-matched to within 1mV, with thermal compound between them and tied together with a cable tie? I'd have to thermally connect them to the Tempco as well, of course...

Also, what does connecting pin 13 of U2 (the "substrate") do? Schematically, this is just the emitter of Q5, which is not used in your circuit.

I know I can get 3046's from Bridechamber for $1 (today, yes; tomorrow? Who knows!). I Just want to make sure we can continue to build and maintain these VCOs long after the apocalypse, when the zombies hoard the last of our precious analog ICs.


I haven't tried it, but a pair of discrete transistors should work. No idea if a cable tie is good enough for thermal connection - I'd use something thermally conduction, like copper wire, instead. Try and find out for yourself, if it's good enough for you. VCO will work with about any decent transistor pair - drift and tuning stability will vary.

Don't expect the LV to work after the apocalypse, though, 3046 or not. Smile

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
MR-808



Joined: Sep 30, 2010
Posts: 28
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A friend and I are looking to make some MOTM-format front panels, with silkscreened graphics on powder-coated aluminum. To defray costs, I'm wondering if we should make more than 2.

The design is based heavily on Bill & Will's 5U design. In lieu of switches, we chose normalized jacks for the Driver & PWM links, and dedicated jacks for Saw & Pulse. The Pulse outputs will require amps to boost them to MOTM levels.

The non-Bourns knobs are all smaller Alco knobs, like on the Encore UEG.

If you'd be interested in purchasing one for a reasonable price (US$40-50?), then please contact me ASAP. This is not a firm commitment; I'm just trying to gauge interest to see how many panels I should make.

Oh, and I'm open to suggestions on what to do with that blank space. Wink


JH_LivingVCO_5U.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  JH_LivingVCO_5U.pdf
 Filesize:  116.37 KB
 Downloaded:  180 Time(s)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MR-808



Joined: Sep 30, 2010
Posts: 28
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Has anyone found that they actually need the trim pots on the front panel?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: Scott Stites
Page 17 of 21 [516 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, ..., 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use