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Buchla Source of Uncertainty 266
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
Posts: 423
Location: PDX
Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

No need to jumper anything if building it like the original. If you use an external noise source on board 3, then you need to cut the trace coming out of the noise IC.

R.

inform3r wrote:
Wow vtl5c3! Quite an undertaking here. Thanks! I've read the thread a couple of times. I'm just getting around to plotting things out. Planning the panel, etc.... For now I'm just curious about one thing.... I know you added a couple of features here and there. You added the possibility for people to inject their own noise source via a jack for instance. Well, if I decide to keep the module without certain additions can I just leave the associated pad alone and everything will be cool? No need to jumper it or anything? Sorry, just curious and taking it slow.

Best Regards,
John
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
Posts: 423
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PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

The manual control is the same thing as the "Quantization" pot on the original module. I just didn't bother to look at the panel labeling when I wrote that post. I did add an attenuation pot on my QRV voltage input, but it isn't required.

Romeo

inform3r wrote:
vtl5c3 wrote:

Inputs:

1) CV input jack with attenuator pot. The PCB layout has extra inputs in case someone wants to add them.

2) Clock input jack.

Manual control:

1) 1 Pot


vtl, another stumper.... What is the "Manual Control Pot"? In the QRV section of the old 266 there's 2 inputs and one of them has a dedicated pot (attenuator?). Are there 2 pots in your QRV section or is the "manual control" pot the attenuator for the CV in?
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inform3r



Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 59
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:
Hi,
The manual control is the same thing as the "Quantization" pot on the original module. I just didn't bother to look at the panel labeling when I wrote that post. I did add an attenuation pot on my QRV voltage input, but it isn't required.

Romeo


Hi Romeo. Thanks. So then the "Manual Control" is indeed the equivalent of the "Quantization" pot on the original 266. Cool. Since the Manual Control is connected to an input I assumed it was a type of attenuator. But in the last part of your message you said that you "added an attenuation pot on your QRV input voltage, but it isn't required". I thought Manual Control was sort of an attenuator? Did you add an extra pot to your QRV section, or am I misunderstanding your statement and possibly the function of the Manual Control/Quantization knob?

Other than that it hasn't been too hard to associate most of the pads with the 266's various controls. However.... I'm having a bit of trouble breaking down board 4. The lowest section of the 266 is what I'm the most unfamiliar with. I know that it's mostly a S&H and Slew, but I can't pair up your labels with the original panel, thus I don't know where/how to place them. I'm going to list the stuff on board 4 (below) that I'm confused with. Could you write the 266 panel equivalent beside the items on my list? Thanks!!

PCB 4:
Clock In
S&H In
Slew In
Slew Out
Slew CV In
Slew Control
Pulse 1 Out
Pulse 2 Out
CV 1 & 2 Out
CV 1 Out
CV 2 Out
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funkyfarm



Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Posts: 583
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

(still no split for this thread ? Smile )

Are 2N4391 Transistors common items ?

Quite expensive on ebay (and in small quantity)...
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

2N4391 are easy to get, at least in the US. Try looking for PN4391, that's the TO-92 plastic package version.

R.

funkyfarm wrote:
(still no split for this thread ? Smile )

Are 2N4391 Transistors common items ?

Quite expensive on ebay (and in small quantity)...
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
Posts: 423
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

inform3r wrote:


Hi Romeo. Thanks. So then the "Manual Control" is indeed the equivalent of the "Quantization" pot on the original 266. Cool. Since the Manual Control is connected to an input I assumed it was a type of attenuator. But in the last part of your message you said that you "added an attenuation pot on your QRV input voltage, but it isn't required". I thought Manual Control was sort of an attenuator? Did you add an extra pot to your QRV section, or am I misunderstanding your statement and possibly the function of the Manual Control/Quantization knob?


Manual control provides an offset voltage. An attenuator allows you to limit how much of the input signal reaches the circuit that will be processing it.

inform3r wrote:

Other than that it hasn't been too hard to associate most of the pads with the 266's various controls. However.... I'm having a bit of trouble breaking down board 4. The lowest section of the 266 is what I'm the most unfamiliar with. I know that it's mostly a S&H and Slew, but I can't pair up your labels with the original panel, thus I don't know where/how to place them. I'm going to list the stuff on board 4 (below) that I'm confused with. Could you write the 266 panel equivalent beside the items on my list? Thanks!!


Well, that's really every connection on the panel. I recommend looking at the schematic in addition to the front panel to help make sense of things.

PCB 4:
Clock In = Pulse In
S&H In = C.V. In
Slew In = Integrator (input jack)
Slew Out = Integrator (output jack)
Slew CV In = Time Constant (input jack)
Slew Control = Time Constant (Pot)
Pulse 1 Out = alt (jack)
Pulse 2 Out = alt (jack)
CV 1 & 2 Out = C.V. Out (jack)
CV 1 Out = alt (Jack)
CV 2 Out = alt (Jack)
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tommi



Joined: Dec 05, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Are 2N4391 Transistors common items ?

Quite expensive on ebay (and in small quantity)...


I found them on banzaieffects:
http://www.banzaieffects.com/2N4391-pr-27860.html
0,36 euro each

_________________
http://soundcloud.com/mister-vommi
http://tideofsound.net
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funkyfarm



Joined: Jan 21, 2007
Posts: 583
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you.

they also give that :

2N 4391
Crossreference match for: PN4391, NTE467
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CJ Miller



Joined: Jan 07, 2007
Posts: 371
Location: 127.0.0.1

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funkyfarm wrote:
Thank you.

they also give that :

2N 4391
Crossreference match for: PN4391, NTE467


I recall also using MPF102 for similar applications.
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inform3r



Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 59
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

inform3r wrote:

Hi Romeo. Thanks. So then the "Manual Control" is indeed the equivalent of the "Quantization" pot on the original 266. Cool. Since the Manual Control is connected to an input I assumed it was a type of attenuator. But in the last part of your message you said that you "added an attenuation pot on your QRV input voltage, but it isn't required". I thought Manual Control was sort of an attenuator? Did you add an extra pot to your QRV section, or am I misunderstanding your statement and possibly the function of the Manual Control/Quantization knob?

vtl5c3 wrote:

Manual control provides an offset voltage. An attenuator allows you to limit how much of the input signal reaches the circuit that will be processing it.

Thanks, but I'm already very familiar with what both are. I think we're misunderstanding each other.... My confusion and subsequent questions about "1 pot or 2 pots" stem from a couple of posts in which you mention both the attenuator and Manual Offset pots in the QRV. Since the original 266 panel had one pot in the QRV section and since I only see one pot on your PCB (maybe I missed the other?) I was confused by what seemed to be contradictory statements.
inform3r wrote:

I'm going to list the stuff on board 4 (below) that I'm confused with. Could you write the 266 panel equivalent beside the items on my list? Thanks!!

vtl5c3 wrote:

Well, that's really every connection on the panel. I recommend looking at the schematic in addition to the front panel to help make sense of things.

Really? How so? There's 4 PCB's and this only pertains to one. You are right about the schematics. I tend to print them for better viewing (especially Buchla stuff!). It will be a few days until I can get that done so I thought I would just ask. I feel like I'm pulling teeth a little. Is it a newbie rite of ritual? I was a card carrying member of AH and a few other synth groups for 10+ years. Laughing
vtl5c3 wrote:

PCB 4:
Clock In = Pulse In
S&H In = C.V. In
Slew In = Integrator (input jack)
Slew Out = Integrator (output jack)
Slew CV In = Time Constant (input jack)
Slew Control = Time Constant (Pot)
Pulse 1 Out = alt (jack)
Pulse 2 Out = alt (jack)
CV 1 & 2 Out = C.V. Out (jack)
CV 1 Out = alt (Jack)
CV 2 Out = alt (Jack)

Thanks Romeo! That helps me a lot. I've been thinking of ways (what format, layout) to build this and your info is vital. I'm sure it will be of much use to other members too.
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billy pilgrim



Joined: Feb 12, 2008
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Location: nyc

PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:55 pm    Post subject: 266-4 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've finished boards 1,2 & 3 and they all work great, just starting to look at board 4. It looks to me that the emitters of the PNP pair in the integrator are tied to ground, via 10k, instead of +15v ? Similarly pin 3 of the lower 4013 should be tied to +15v instead of ground ? Anyone else looked at this ?


ericcoleridge wrote:
Anyone here tackle board 4 yet? Although it's been a while since I've looked at it, I had some problems with mine. Just wondering what other's experience has been?
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 266-4 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ugh... Good eye. I will fix the layouts. Sorry about that.

billy pilgrim wrote:
I've finished boards 1,2 & 3 and they all work great, just starting to look at board 4. It looks to me that the emitters of the PNP pair in the integrator are tied to ground, via 10k, instead of +15v ? Similarly pin 3 of the lower 4013 should be tied to +15v instead of ground ? Anyone else looked at this ?


ericcoleridge wrote:
Anyone here tackle board 4 yet? Although it's been a while since I've looked at it, I had some problems with mine. Just wondering what other's experience has been?
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've posted the fixed layout, on the third page of this thread. To those of you that have already made a board with the older version - I apologize. If you need any advice for hacking the old layout so that the two resistors going to ground actually go to V+ - let me know. It shouldn't be too hard.

R.
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inform3r



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: 266-4 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Billy, great to know that you have the three boards up and running! Once completed this will be one powerful module. Thanks Romeo!
Has anyone started work on a panel yet? I've been thinking about it conceptually, and I'll probably do it in Frac format and I'll also try and keep a similar look to the original I think. Any thoughts?

billy pilgrim wrote:
I've finished boards 1,2 & 3 and they all work great, just starting to look at board 4. It looks to me that the emitters of the PNP pair in the integrator are tied to ground, via 10k, instead of +15v ? Similarly pin 3 of the lower 4013 should be tied to +15v instead of ground ? Anyone else looked at this ?
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funkyfarm



Joined: Jan 21, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

266-3 266-4

did anyone test STPPED output for both FRV ? need slewed and stepped versions at the same time ? or a switch is fine ?

or separate clock/input sockets for S&H 1 and S&H 2 (maybe less interesting) ? here is a panel project...


B 266-2 34.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  B 266-2 34.pdf
 Filesize:  155.27 KB
 Downloaded:  366 Time(s)

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inform3r



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

funkyfarm wrote:
266-3 266-4

did anyone test STPPED output for both FRV ? need slewed and stepped versions at the same time ? or a switch is fine ?

or separate clock/input sockets for S&H 1 and S&H 2 (maybe less interesting) ? here is a panel project...


Nice panel funyfarm! Is it Frac? I can't tell. Sorry I can't help with your questions. Haven't started on this build yet.
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Photon



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anyone know the value of the slew pot for board four?

[*edit*] Found it. 10K on the original schematic.
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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Romeo,

Hi, I've finished my boards 3 and 4. I just need to kludge the fixes onto board 4 which I'm hoping will clear up the initial problems I was having.


I now moving on to board 2. I'm looking at your revised PCB layout, and I see that the '266-2' script is now non-reversed on the artwork--which suggested to me that the PCB needed to be mirrored before etching-- so that the '266-2' script comes out non-reversed after being transfered. But, I it doesn't seem like this will give the proper pin out to the ICs. I'm a bit confused. Usually, on etch ready artwork, all of the script is in reverse-- so that it comes out correct when transfered.

Isn't the etch artwork press'n'peel ready as is? So, shouldn't the 266-2 script be in reverse, and not non-reversed as it is currently? Can you take a look at what I'm saying?
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ugh.... Hi Eric... The board layout is already reversed, as it should be. The number is not. No idea why I did that. I'll change it and upload it to avoid further confusion.

ericcoleridge wrote:
Romeo,

Hi, I've finished my boards 3 and 4. I just need to kludge the fixes onto board 4 which I'm hoping will clear up the initial problems I was having.


I now moving on to board 2. I'm looking at your revised PCB layout, and I see that the '266-2' script is now non-reversed on the artwork--which suggested to me that the PCB needed to be mirrored before etching-- so that the '266-2' script comes out non-reversed after being transfered. But, I it doesn't seem like this will give the proper pin out to the ICs. I'm a bit confused. Usually, on etch ready artwork, all of the script is in reverse-- so that it comes out correct when transfered.

Isn't the etch artwork press'n'peel ready as is? So, shouldn't the 266-2 script be in reverse, and not non-reversed as it is currently? Can you take a look at what I'm saying?
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ericcoleridge



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:
The board layout is already reversed, as it should be. The number is not. No idea why I did that. I'll change it and upload it to avoid further confusion.


OK, great. Thats what I thought, but I wanted to double check with you before printing out a PCB. Thanks for helping me clear this up!
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I fixeded the layout files and uploaded them. Hopefully I didn't instroduce any new erros. scratch

ericcoleridge wrote:
vtl5c3 wrote:
The board layout is already reversed, as it should be. The number is not. No idea why I did that. I'll change it and upload it to avoid further confusion.


OK, great. Thats what I thought, but I wanted to double check with you before printing out a PCB. Thanks for helping me clear this up!
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inform3r



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

These boards are in my lineup for the next etching session I do. Has anyone gotten Board 4 to work? This (for me) is one of the most amazing DIY projects! I'm really hoping we can get a fully functioning 266 SOU out of this.

Any updates on people's work with this are extremely welcome. So far, there's confirmation on this thread of Boards 1, 2 and 3 working just fine. Anyone get #4 going yet?

Best Regards,
John
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billy pilgrim



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've got all 4 boards working great.......


inform3r wrote:
These boards are in my lineup for the next etching session I do. Has anyone gotten Board 4 to work? This (for me) is one of the most amazing DIY projects! I'm really hoping we can get a fully functioning 266 SOU out of this.

Any updates on people's work with this are extremely welcome. So far, there's confirmation on this thread of Boards 1, 2 and 3 working just fine. Anyone get #4 going yet?

Best Regards,
John
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inform3r



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

billy pilgrim wrote:
I've got all 4 boards working great.......


Wow! That's fantastic news! Was it a bumpy road or a standard affair? If you ran into any problems can you give us current 266 builders some tips?

BTW, which etching files did you use, because recently Romeo re-uploaded them because of a discrepancy with the whole 'mirror-image' issue, etc... I'm so psyched to fire up the 'ole iron now. Razz

Please, do tell all! Shocked

Regards,
John
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billy pilgrim



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

John,

I think the few build issues have been addressed now and the files are solid.

I made all 4 boards the same size so they would easily bolt together in a sandwich. Also I modified the FRV to use the Electric Druid noise source which works very well.

It's not too difficult at all so fire it up !

Wow! That's fantastic news! Was it a bumpy road or a standard affair? If you ran into any problems can you give us current 266 builders some tips?

BTW, which etching files did you use, because recently Romeo re-uploaded them because of a discrepancy with the whole 'mirror-image' issue, etc... I'm so psyched to fire up the 'ole iron now. Razz

Please, do tell all! Shocked

Regards,
John[/quote]
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