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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Buchla Source of Uncertainty 266
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

billy pilgrim wrote:
John,

I think the few build issues have been addressed now and the files are solid.

I made all 4 boards the same size so they would easily bolt together in a sandwich. Also I modified the FRV to use the Electric Druid noise source which works very well.

It's not too difficult at all so fire it up !

Wow! That's fantastic news! Was it a bumpy road or a standard affair? If you ran into any problems can you give us current 266 builders some tips?

BTW, which etching files did you use, because recently Romeo re-uploaded them because of a discrepancy with the whole 'mirror-image' issue, etc... I'm so psyched to fire up the 'ole iron now. Razz

Please, do tell all! Shocked

Regards,
John
[/quote]

did you change the board layout for the noise mod or just lay the componens for it on a bredboard. the only thing im worried about with this project is the noise. did that obsolere noise IC do anything else in the circuit?

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billy pilgrim



Joined: Feb 12, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

....did you change the board layout for the noise mod or just lay the componens for it on a bredboard. the only thing im worried about with this project is the noise. did that obsolere noise IC do anything else in the circuit?[/quote]

I changed the layout to include a 78L05 and decoupling and changed the gain set resistor to match the output. As well as the noise output it is heavily filtered and modulates a triangle wave that's used to trigger the s&h part of the FRV.
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inform3r



Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 59
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

billy pilgrim wrote:
John,

I think the few build issues have been addressed now and the files are solid.

I made all 4 boards the same size so they would easily bolt together in a sandwich. Also I modified the FRV to use the Electric Druid noise source which works very well.

It's not too difficult at all so fire it up !


Great news Billy. I was under the assumption that the boards differ in size, right? For some reason I thought one might be larger than the other. Maybe I'm wrong, I haven't looked for a while. But if I'm right, how did you size the boards to the same dimensions? I'm also very keen on the 'sandwich idea" so I would like to know.

Regards,
John
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scriptstyle



Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 250
Location: nj

PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

im quite sure they can all fit on 4 6x6 boards.
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inform3r



Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 59
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

scriptstyle wrote:
im quite sure they can all fit on 4 6x6 boards.


I see. Very true.
However, Billy, if that's not how you did it can you please share your method?

My goal is to get these boards to fit behind a pretty small face plate (I wont be mounting the PCBs MOTM, Blacet or Doepfer style). I'll be building this module in the old 'sandwich' fashion and I only have 4.5" to work with in terms of width of the panel. I plan on using spacers to mount them, etc... Any tips appreciated.
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1002
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey everyone

i am about to etch my pcbs
i changed the layout of the FRV pcb to include a small vero patch so you can build your own noise source on board instead of trying to find the MM chip or burn electric druid pic clone.

i will probably use on of the transistor noise source shown in this thread
http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopic.php?highlight=noise&t=37337

i didnt change romeo's layout in any other way so there should not be any testing needed to verify the board.


266_3_pcb_FRV_vero.pdf
 Description:
romeo's FRV pcb / vero patch for noise source

Download
 Filename:  266_3_pcb_FRV_vero.pdf
 Filesize:  1.08 MB
 Downloaded:  425 Time(s)


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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

inform3r wrote:
scriptstyle wrote:
im quite sure they can all fit on 4 6x6 boards.


I see. Very true.
However, Billy, if that's not how you did it can you please share your method?


Yes, I'd be very interested to know if anyone has altered the PCB for
board #1. It's quite a bit larger than the other 3 PCBs, which complicates mounting it with the others (particularly when mounting it behind a 4.25" x 7" or smaller panel).
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Luka



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeh it is massive, i think it is the biggest pcb in my cabinet
almost too big to mount in my case Smile

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problemchild
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billy pilgrim



Joined: Feb 12, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ericcoleridge wrote:
inform3r wrote:
scriptstyle wrote:
im quite sure they can all fit on 4 6x6 boards.


I see. Very true.
However, Billy, if that's not how you did it can you please share your method?


Yes, I'd be very interested to know if anyone has altered the PCB for
board #1. It's quite a bit larger than the other 3 PCBs, which complicates mounting it with the others (particularly when mounting it behind a 4.25" x 7" or smaller panel).


I made ExpressPCB files based on Romeo's drawings. They are all 4.5" x 5", probably could be squeezed smaller if necessary.
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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
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Location: NYC

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Billy,

Have you tested your re-draws yet? I think I've already etched/assembled Romeo's #2-4 PCBs. But, my 266 could really benefit from a smaller board #1.

billy pilgrim wrote:
ericcoleridge wrote:
inform3r wrote:
scriptstyle wrote:
im quite sure they can all fit on 4 6x6 boards.


I see. Very true.
However, Billy, if that's not how you did it can you please share your method?


Yes, I'd be very interested to know if anyone has altered the PCB for
board #1. It's quite a bit larger than the other 3 PCBs, which complicates mounting it with the others (particularly when mounting it behind a 4.25" x 7" or smaller panel).


I made ExpressPCB files based on Romeo's drawings. They are all 4.5" x 5", probably could be squeezed smaller if necessary.
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey im just getting my FRV finished. I noticed that my 555 is clocking really slow. Can someone let me know what sort of voltage range I'm supposed to see at the vactrol LED?

Mine seems to sit around -12v and it doesn't move much when i turn the manual control pot so i dont think the resistance is moving much in the 555 circuit

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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i just bredboarded the circuit and it swings from -12 to +15 at the vtl5c3 cathode. wow! i cant believe that it goes so hot. Anyway it seems to work. Resistance varies from 10m to almost 0r

Time to work out why the circuit in my pcb isnt doing this

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Luka



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

got it i had the 5c3/2s in upside down Smile
which is a shame since these things cost so much. i replaced with some 4c3/2s and it works.

watch out with vactrol orientation with this circuit. you cant do it just from the parts layout guide

my analog noise works too, i have a switch to choose which noise source you want Smile

now onto my SRV

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Luka



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just for the record FRV is unbelievable
what a cool controller

it is everything i wanted my wogglebug to do and it never would

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great,i follow the built reports from close.

I consider to redraw and merge the pcbs on a smaller footprint so they fit behind a buchla format panel.
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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i found a kludge in the SRV board

the trace which connects the rectifier diodes to the -15 (via 47k) also connects to the +15 (via 47k). you need to remove the 47k between the rectifier and the +15 rail.

another board completed!!
now to finish my QRV and im done Smile

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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i found a kludge in the QRV board also

on the 2n output buffer TL074 (ic1) pin 1 and 2 are mixed up

Hey can someone tell me how the gating works in this circuit. I am not sure how it works. I can see that IC2 is set up as 4 comparators but they seem to have the same threshold. The theory is that the outputs from the 4016s have ratio'ed output resistors and apparently they get gated when you turn the manual control.

My 2n and N+1 kinda look the same and i cant tell the difference when i turn the manual pot. I can see that the pot is working as the comparators are switching but not much else.

I don't understand how the states are gated using this technique. A bit beyond my circuit understanding. Please help!

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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here is my panel btw

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

i have a Chaquo in there in place of the SOU integrator board as i thought chaos generator and quad osc was a better combo. Still need to add that pcb to the module though Smile

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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Luka,

Sorry about the error on the 2^n output. I just posted a corrected version. I didn't think there were any more errors to fix...

Regarding how the circuit works, I'm uncertain about that. Very Happy But I do have a description from Steve Ridley that makes a lot of sense:

>The "Quantized Random Voltages" section is based around a fairly
>standard preude-random sequence generator, using a 4007 and an
>EXOR gate. The 4006 is clocked by input pulses from the top left
>4mm socket. The next bit is clever. Various taps of the 4006 are
>taken through 4016 switches and suitable scaling resistors into a
>mixing op-amp - a sort of analogue/digital filtering. There are two
>different mixes to give different noise distributions. The 4016 switches
>are driven by comparators from a resistor ladder and a CV, so
>increasing the CV or turning the pot brings in more switches, mixes
>in more stages and changes the distribution. Each output has a
>4mm socket and an LED.

How are you using the circuit? Are you feeding a voltage source into the CV input and a pulse into the pulse input?

Luka wrote:
i found a kludge in the QRV board also

on the 2n output buffer TL074 (ic1) pin 1 and 2 are mixed up

Hey can someone tell me how the gating works in this circuit. I am not sure how it works. I can see that IC2 is set up as 4 comparators but they seem to have the same threshold. The theory is that the outputs from the 4016s have ratio'ed output resistors and apparently they get gated when you turn the manual control.

My 2n and N+1 kinda look the same and i cant tell the difference when i turn the manual pot. I can see that the pot is working as the comparators are switching but not much else.

I don't understand how the states are gated using this technique. A bit beyond my circuit understanding. Please help!
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for pointing out the extra 47K. I updated the layout to remove it. Luckily this is an easy fix for anyone who's made the board already.

Luka wrote:
i found a kludge in the SRV board

the trace which connects the rectifier diodes to the -15 (via 47k) also connects to the +15 (via 47k). you need to remove the 47k between the rectifier and the +15 rail.

another board completed!!
now to finish my QRV and im done Smile
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i think i understand the circuit

a cascading reference voltage hits each comparator. it starts at 5v6 and then drops when it passed through each 10k. the comparator switched by the control input sends clock signals to the shift registers which then fire out the voltages.

that is my analysis based on my very limited opamp application knowledge

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beautyofdecay_



Joined: Aug 14, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just stumbled across a "replacement" for the MM5837.
It's implemented in a PIC12F675. It's more "random" than the original.
Only downside is that the PCB has to be altered to provide +5V to the PIC micro controller.

More info on http://www.electricdruid.com/forums.html?page=projects.noisegen
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forbin



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

page 4 of this thread has some info on this including something that you need to bear in mind....
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have plans to merge the 4 pcb's onto 2 pcb's buchla format.
Its possible to do.
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I totally understand the politics that go with this and hope I'm not opening a can of worms but would love it if someone would do a small run of boards for this module. I'm just not etching boards as much these days and there were so many problems caught as people started building these boards that it would be awesome to have a verified project with correct documentation and manufactured boards. I think this project would jump to the top of my queue. Don't think I'm the person to do it and again I know it's probably not kosher, but just saying.
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