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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
Dual Chime mod.
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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 672
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:42 pm    Post subject: Dual Chime mod.
Subject description: other sound sources?
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Could I substitute one of the 3 oscillators with a noise generator and it's own level pot, or would it require more extensive modification to function properly?
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tell me which schematic it is and I can possibly let you know. Smile
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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Smile Just trying to figure out what my options for simple hi-hats are since they are scaring me away from the liquid one.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I had another glance at Ken's description of the circuit. You could try slipping a noise source in as well or in place of, 1 of the CD40106 clocks.
I'm not 100% sure whether the Decay, controlling the voltage through the transistor, will completely cut off the amount of Noise coming out, or not. I'd have to bread board that, to try it out.

There're possibly many ways that a hihat could be simulated. After checking through Ken's Chime schematic (more later), one other option that I thought of could be:

Code:

Noise source --->BPF --->VCA ---> Out
                             |            |
              (optional)|______|
                                   |
Trigger --->Decay -----/


If you have all of those modules (ADSR with A, S and R at 0), you could test the idea out, yourself.

To come around to the other side of the coin though - one of the main things that I love about the Liquid HiHat so much, is the shear variety of sound possibilities, FROM it. Then when you add a Ray Wilson drum trigger to controlling it, the Velocity control abilities open up the sound possibilities even further. (I.E. the more complex, the more varieties of sounds, rather than sticking with only a few basic sound types.)

Again - as an option, the LHH could be built with NO controls. The only changes to it, could be from the CV In jacks. Of course, that would limit your pitch control possibilities quite strongly. Including Frequency controls for 1 or both of the Voltage Controlled Clocks, would also allow you to choose 1 or 2 more sets of frequency areas, to by modulated by the CV inputs.

For myself in my modular life - the simpler that something is, the sooner that I become tired of it and stop using it. On THAT flip of the coin again though - the more complex that is, the more that there is to remember and the more that there is forgotten. A proper balance in between is required. There - the LHH allows the user to choose how complex or simple, they'd like things to be.

Smile
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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 672
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for taking a look at it.

Rykhaard wrote:
I had another glance at Ken's description of the circuit. You could try slipping a noise source in as well or in place of, 1 of the CD40106 clocks.
I'm not 100% sure whether the Decay, controlling the voltage through the transistor, will completely cut off the amount of Noise coming out, or not. I'd have to bread board that, to try it out.


Yeah, Ken says that when the envelope is off the oscillators are "disabled", but I'm not sure if that means they are disabled at the source, or simply muted.


Quote:

Code:

Noise source --->BPF --->VCA ---> Out
                             |            |
              (optional)|______|
                                   |
Trigger --->Decay -----/


If you have all of those modules (ADSR with A, S and R at 0), you could test the idea out, yourself.



I tried this when I made this video, but I didn't have am envelope or VCA to spare so I had to just use the clock signal Laughing I'll definitely give it another try with the proper modules.

I was fooling around with creating some hi-hats today and my favourite so far is to to put 2 VCO's through the real ring modulator, then mix them with highpass noise (via noise cornucopia) and put it through a lowpass filter with the resonance cranked. The filter is opened all the way, so the resonance is inaudible,but then backed off just a tiny bit. This is the magic ingredient, as it really makes it sound nice and crispy Smile

Quote:

To come around to the other side of the coin though - one of the main things that I love about the Liquid HiHat so much, is the shear variety of sound possibilities, FROM it. Then when you add a Ray Wilson drum trigger to controlling it, the Velocity control abilities open up the sound possibilities even further. (I.E. the more complex, the more varieties of sounds, rather than sticking with only a few basic sound types.)


This does sound intriguing, using velocity and accents is something I haven't even begun to consider yet, but I probably should before I build myself into a corner Razz Speaking of the drum trigger, where did that damn thing go? Confused

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Rykhaard



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Posts: 1290
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

neandrewthal wrote:
Thanks for taking a look at it.

Rykhaard wrote:
I had another glance at Ken's description of the circuit. You could try slipping a noise source in as well or in place of, 1 of the CD40106 clocks.
I'm not 100% sure whether the Decay, controlling the voltage through the transistor, will completely cut off the amount of Noise coming out, or not. I'd have to bread board that, to try it out.


Yeah, Ken says that when the envelope is off the oscillators are "disabled", but I'm not sure if that means they are disabled at the source, or simply muted.


One part of my saying 'yes' to adding it that I had forgotten last night: your White Noise source, will be bi-polar, whereas the CD40106 may be running unipolar. You'd have to block the negative voltages from the noise source, before they reached the CD40106. Shocked

Again - IIRC, when the transistor is off, no output will be allowed.
On the input side of things, when the Comparator is outputting a High, no oscillation will occur.

Quote:

I was fooling around with creating some hi-hats today and my favourite so far is to to put 2 VCO's through the real ring modulator, then mix them with highpass noise (via noise cornucopia) and put it through a lowpass filter with the resonance cranked. The filter is opened all the way, so the resonance is inaudible,but then backed off just a tiny bit. This is the magic ingredient, as it really makes it sound nice and crispy Smile


Now THAT's an idea to try as well! Smile

Rych wrote:

To come around to the other side of the coin though - one of the main things that I love about the Liquid HiHat so much, is the shear variety of sound possibilities, FROM it. Then when you add a Ray Wilson drum trigger to controlling it, the Velocity control abilities open up the sound possibilities even further. (I.E. the more complex, the more varieties of sounds, rather than sticking with only a few basic sound types.)


Quote:

This does sound intriguing, using velocity and accents is something I haven't even begun to consider yet, but I probably should before I build myself into a corner Razz Speaking of the drum trigger, where did that damn thing go? Confused

[/quote]

Velocity hasn't even been tried yet?? Shocked Shocked OMG! Get yourself a piezo transducer and hook it up to Ray's circuit! The control possibilities via velocity (from physically activating) are HUGE! Apply it to the Cutoff Frequency of a VCF (as well as a VCA at the same time) and the harder you hit the surface, the more the filter opens up. (Or the other way around. Same thing for the VCA). That's just one example. Very Happy

In one of the up'n'coming videos, I'll demonstrate that aspect as well, as I hope to convert my first drum practice pad that I received for Xmas, today - then hooking it up to my 1 Drum Trigger circuit from Ray, that I built.

I found it again. It's at this address:

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/OLD_SOUNDLABMINISYNTH/drum_trigger.html

The next ones that I make PCBs for will be having multiple Decay Controls / Outputs.

(In Ray's circuit, I added a 1 meg control, to control the length of the Decay time. A key modification here.)
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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 672
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cheers for the link, but in light of this new information I may end up waiting for the liquid hi-hate 2.0 Smile

Rykhaard wrote:


Velocity hasn't even been tried yet??


Hehe, I don't even have any trigger pads. I was just planning on making lifeless digital beats with sequencers/logic. I guess I'll have to go the dollar store and find an alarm clock Laughing

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Rykhaard



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Posts: 1290
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

neandrewthal wrote:
Cheers for the link, but in light of this new information I may end up waiting for the liquid hi-hate 2.0 Smile


V2.00 wont be quick. Shocked (I.E.: speaking in months, more'n likely, with all of my other ideas, as well as backlogs.) I still have further development / testing to do on it, before I publicly post it. Sad Keep watch in my Blog though. That's where all news of it will be, as it carries through.

Quote:

Rykhaard wrote:


Velocity hasn't even been tried yet??


Hehe, I don't even have any trigger pads. I was just planning on making lifeless digital beats with sequencers/logic. I guess I'll have to go the dollar store and find an alarm clock Laughing


DEF! Laughing I may set one of my 3 (alarm clocks) to pound away on as well, for a video. Wink

(I myself learned of and starting working with, velocity, in MIDI sequencers in the later 80's. Haven't ever looked back, since. Smile )
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neandrewthal



Joined: May 11, 2007
Posts: 672
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
neandrewthal wrote:
Cheers for the link, but in light of this new information I may end up waiting for the liquid hi-hate 2.0 Smile


V2.00 wont be quick. Shocked (I.E.: speaking in months, more'n likely, with all of my other ideas, as well as backlogs.)

You could tell me years and I'll still have enough soldering to keep me busy until then, so no worries Rolling Eyes Wink

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