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What are all the ADSR's out there to build?
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nicolas3141



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 139
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes with no gate and the trigger doing the LFO thing (or triggered from elsewhere), it behaves like an AR, but with the possibility for a slightly more complex than usual R portion. You can make it decay fast initially then slowly until it retriggers. That is with the S set middling. Set like this it also has the curious characteristic that the LFO can be gated, but in reverse - the LFO oscillates when the gate is low, not when high. With the S set low it is like a normal AR, but the gate can be used to switch between two different decay rates. So for a simple circuit it can do a few tricks. I have not yet built a second one, but when I do I am looking forward to seeing what it will do when the two are set to trigger each other. I also think it would benefit from an LED on the output to help me see what it is up to.

And for anyone interested in breadboarding or building on stripboard, here is my stripboard layout. Be aware that two diodes and several resistors are not on the board, but instead hang off the back of the pots and sockets on the front panel. Let me know if you need help with the panel wiring side of things, but I have not diagrammed that at this stage.

Cheers,
Nicolas


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frijitz



Joined: May 04, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is fantastic. Why isn't everyone jumping up and down about it? Rolling Eyes

Very Happy

Ian
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monokinetic



Joined: Aug 01, 2006
Posts: 100
Location: prague

PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,
Thanks a lot for the strip board layout, it's in my folder of things to build Smile

frijitz wrote:
Why isn't everyone jumping up and down about it? Rolling Eyes


Where's the jumping smiley.....

Very Happy

Dave
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

looks good!
i already have a bunch of vc-ARs and vc-adsrs to complete but i might try this at a later date.

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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ian, you are absolutely right.

just a quad OpAmp, some resistors and diodes. it is simple in a very good way. it's smart and sexy.

i will etch myself some boards, i think.

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andrewF



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
This is fantastic. Why isn't everyone jumping up and down about it? Rolling Eyes

Very Happy

Ian


to busy soldering one up??
it went straight onto my shortlist
Smile
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crashlander42



Joined: Oct 21, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frijitz wrote:
This is fantastic. Why isn't everyone jumping up and down about it? Rolling Eyes

Very Happy

Ian


I am actually. I love simple multifunctional circuits. Very Happy

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scriptstyle



Joined: Jan 22, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wish i was doing this right now instead i been spending the last week or so strip-boarding the yusynth adsr....

oo well bummer town, this looks about 3 times easier then my busy layout job arrow
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nicolas3141 wrote:
Here's my ultra simple ADSR that can also retrigger itself to behave like an LFO. Mine is running off +/-9V with an LM324 doing the business. You might need to tweak a few resistors around the gate input area if you wanted to go to +/-15V, but probably not by much.

so you powered the quad OpAmp from a dual supply. i wonder if it wouldn't run on a single supply? you even used a LM324...

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nicolas3141



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Single supply would require a little bit of tweaking, but not much. The downside would be that low sustain levels would not work properly because the LM324 cannot sink any significant current down to V-. Fixing that problem would require an extra transistor or two, but is doable.
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nicolas3141



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you for the kind words Ian.

Here is some background to the design. I created it late last year with these design goals: simple and easy to build on stripboard, understandable for those learning basic electronics, common and cheap parts, nothing static sensitive, able to run on batteries (+/-9V) - hence the choice of a single LM324 doing it all. In terms of the design and the functionality it is very similar to the 555 based ADSR designs, but has the extra ability to retrigger itself and is perhaps slightly simpler to build.

I am doing the design work for a group of us building battery powered analog synths with a view to street performance. In a couple of weeks will be our first major outing - about eight of us taking our modulars out and improvising some noise for the passers by. Wish us luck.

Cheers,
Nicolas
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nicolas3141



Joined: May 25, 2007
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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
i will etch myself some boards, i think.


This ADSR has so far been built by me and a couple of other people, but please be aware that it may still need a little fine tuning to be at its best. In particular we were building in a context of +/-9V supply and 0-5V CV. So in a normal modular everything is running at higher voltages. This should not be a problem, but some fine tuning of resistor values may be required to get it just right. I encourage you to build a prototype before you commit to PCBs.

For example I have already mentioned the resistors either side of the sustain pot. And also regarding the sustain, if your synth has a reference voltage cleaner than the V+ supply, you should use that instead for feeding the sustain pot and adjust the resistor values accordingly.

The peak voltage of the attack is determined by the ratio of the 1M resistors around the central op-amp multiplied by the highest output voltage it can manage. So if it is not giving you what you want you may need to reduce the grounding resistor a bit to give you a hotter peak.

That sort of thing.

Cheers,
Nicolas
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Do you think it may be a good idea to start this thread in a new post?

This is a very neat design. thanks for posting Nicolas! Very Happy
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nicolas3141 wrote:
I encourage you to build a prototype before you commit to PCBs.

yep. that's what i normally do. i breadboard it first to be sure. i won't do all that drilling without knowing it will do the job Very Happy

however, thank you very much for the comments and recommendations. very helpful.

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's some more Envelope Shaper stuff in the form of trapezoid links;

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-22772.html
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fonik, if you get this to work and layout a PCB would be great if you wouldn't mind sharing that on your site, as well as any changes you might make in resistor values. I prefer etching to protoboarding behind a panel whenever possible.

Thanks!

fonik wrote:
nicolas3141 wrote:
I encourage you to build a prototype before you commit to PCBs.

yep. that's what i normally do. i breadboard it first to be sure. i won't do all that drilling without knowing it will do the job Very Happy

however, thank you very much for the comments and recommendations. very helpful.
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rjd2



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nicolas, this sounds intriguing. also sounds like something that a few people have interest in. would you consider doing a run of pcb's, once it got tested for a 12/15V circuit? just throwing it out there(ok, im a sucker for convenience). i couldnt commit to doing all the mailing and all that, but depending on the cost, i might be game to pony up the dough to do a run, if someone else was willing to ship out maybe? just throwing it out there.....
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numbertalk



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Would be in for this if someone did a run of boards. A dual or a quad board design would be killer.

rjd2 wrote:
nicolas, this sounds intriguing. also sounds like something that a few people have interest in. would you consider doing a run of pcb's, once it got tested for a 12/15V circuit? just throwing it out there(ok, im a sucker for convenience). i couldnt commit to doing all the mailing and all that, but depending on the cost, i might be game to pony up the dough to do a run, if someone else was willing to ship out maybe? just throwing it out there.....
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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here is my 1st attempt on a eurorack compatible layout providing footprints for cliff sockets. hopefully i get this thing breadboarded soon, in order to place an order together with the PS3100 PCBs...


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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey nice work Matthias! Cool

edit- but I was just thinking, the pots are a bit close together. Because the design is so simple, it would be nice if the board could be mounted on a front panel without the need of L-brackets etc. Also the lfo switch too? Idea


fwiw, I found about 100 LM324's in my loft! Shocked

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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Hey nice work Matthias! Cool

edit- but I was just thinking, the pots are a bit close together. Because the design is so simple, it would be nice if the board could be mounted on a front panel without the need of L-brackets etc. Also the lfo switch too? Idea

first and foremost this is a panel design for my own purposes. it is mounted to the fronpanel using the PCB mounted cliff jack sockets. the switch is PCB mount type, too. the pots are connected using common MTA100 conenctors.
the advantage of mounting the board using the sockets instead of the pots is to be able to use a smaller frontpanel (just 800mil grid, which would not be possible with 16mm alpha pots mounted in a 90 deg manner).

however, i will try a single sided layout for homebrew, too. and what about an indicator LED?

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:

first and foremost this is a panel design for my own purposes.


Laughing Of course! Laughing

I was only moaning because my attention has been else where- like catching up on all the things I promised I'd do yonks ago! Laughing

Very Happy

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rjd2



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

matthias, did you arrange to do a run of these, or are the pcb's you're ordering for personal use? also, nicolas, PM me if you're interested in doing a run of these. yes, dual board design would be great.
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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it is not my design and not my decision. it is all up to nicolas. in any case i will order some boards with cliff footprints for me.
take a look at the stripboard layout above. one could do it on stripboard anyway.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
one could do it on stripboard anyway.


Shocked Laughing

Stripboard Shocked

How could Nicolas refuse when a board looks as beautiful as that one?! Rolling Eyes

Wink

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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