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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Module Reference Comparative Table
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modular



Joined: Jul 26, 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:05 pm    Post subject: Module Reference Comparative Table Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, the question is pretty simple, but I hope useful for too many people who are engaged in translation of patches from NM1 to G2.

Is there anyone able to write down a comparative table where sign up what any NM1 module correspond to an equal or almost similar G2 module?

I've both manuals but in mostly cases I cannot find the exactly relation i.e:.
OSC A in NM1 has input for PWidth of a Pulse wave that i can't find in any G2's Oscillators or LFO's Slaves in NM1 who have multiplier knob and Master outputs, how substitute them in G2 Editor?

Maybe someone who has both NM1 and G2 Synth could write down due itself experience, a comparative table where illustrated how can be possible make relations between modules so to manage successfully conversion of patches.

Rolling Eyes

Last edited by modular on Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's not little to ask for ...

Jan.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's a nice idea. I gave my NM1 to a friend the day the G2 arrived.
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modular



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
That's not little to ask for ...

Jan.


Well I know. But expert guys like Rob Hordijk or g2ian or J.Clark
should have less difficulties than other to help us with this.

Anyway,maybe this request might be sent to Clavia Support engine and it would be nice to see a shot in a next release of operative manual.

Embarassed Idea
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sebber



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all,

being a proud new owner of a G2, I try to follow Rob Hordijks Nord Modular Basics Workshop on Clavias website.

Since you know the Workshop is for the NM, I started to do what modular asked for. Maybe we can all do it together.

This comparison chart is
a) completely incomplete
and might be
b) hilariously wrong, since I'm a newbie trying to help myself.

Anyway, here's what I've got so far: (I can't give it a decent format, sorry)
NM ----- G2

In/Out
Keyboard ----- Keyboard
2 Outputs ----- 2-Out + Mixer 1-1S (Mixer)
Poly Area In ----- Fx-In

Oscillator
Osc B ----- Osc B (+Mixer 1-1)

Envelope
ADSR-Env ----- Env ADSR

Filter
Filter A ----- Flt LP
Filter B ----- Flt HP
Filter D ----- Flt Multi
Filter E ----- Flt Nord (+Mixer 1-1 (Mixer))
Filter F ----- Flt Classic (+Mixer 1-1 (Mixer))

LFO
LFO Slv B-E ----- Lfo A/Lfo C

Mixer
Mixer 1 ----- Mix4-1B
Mixer 2 ----- Mix8-1B
Pan ----- Pan
X-Fade ----- X-Fade
1 to 2 Fade ----- Fade 1-2
2 to 1 Fade ----- Fade 2-1
4-1 Switch ----- Switch 4-1(Switch) + Mixer 4-1B (Mixer) OR Mixer 4-1C

Audio
Level Shifter/Converter ----- Level Converter(Level)


Maybe this list should only be continued after a thorough checking by the wizards. Or maybe not but thrown away.

I wrote this message twice, because the first one disappeared. If it somehow reappears, send it home.

Cheers,
sebber
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well well, now that's what I call pretty constructive for a first post !

Be welcome sebber.

Jan.
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome, Sebber. Glad to have you here.
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sebber



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello and thanks. But I really don't know if this listing is useful, since it's done by someone who's just starting. But then... I just spent a few hours looking for a Pattern Generator.

Now you know where I am in the tutorial!

2 questions:

1)
Most Oscillators in the NM have to attenuated pitch inputs, the G2 has one attenuated and one unattenuated one. The attenuated one delivers the signal at 100%. Right?
If I want to attenuate the unattenuated input, can I use e.g. Mixer 1-1? Does it make sense?

2)
Since the Slave-output of e.g. the clock generator doesn't exist anymore, which one do I use?

Here's the new list. The idea is to find the modules on the G2 with which NM modules can be fully replaced with the least DSP load.

NM ----- G2

In/Out
Keyboard ----- Keyboard
2 Outputs ----- 2-Out + Mixer 1-1S (Mixer)
Poly Area In ----- Fx-In
Audio In ----- 2-In

Oscillator
Osc A ----- Osc B (+Mixer 1-1)
Osc B ----- Osc B (+Mixer 1-1)
Noise Generator ----- Noise

Envelope
ADSR-Env ----- Env ADSR
AD-Env ----- Env AD/R

Filter
Filter A ----- Flt LP
Filter B ----- Flt HP
Filter D ----- Flt Multi
Filter E ----- Flt Nord (+Mixer 1-1 (Mixer))
Filter F ----- Flt Classic (+Mixer 1-1 (Mixer))

LFO
LFO Slv B-E ----- Lfo B/C
Clock Generator ----- Clock Generator
Pattern Generator ----- [None]

Mixer
Mixer 1 ----- Mix 4-1B
Mixer 2 ----- Mix 8-1B
Pan ----- Pan
X-Fade ----- X-Fade
1 to 2 Fade ----- Fade 1-2
2 to 1 Fade ----- Fade 2-1
4-1 Switch ----- Switch 4-1 (Switch) + Mixer 4-1B (Mixer)
or Mixer 4-1C
OnOff ----- Switch On/Off Toggling (Switcher)
LevMult1 ----- LevAmp1

Audio
Level Shifter/Converter ----- Level Converter (Level)

Control
Constant ----- Constant (Level)
Control Mixer ----- Mixer 2-1B
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sebber wrote:
But I really don't know if this listing is useful, since it's done by someone who's just starting. But then... I just spent a few hours looking for a Pattern Generator.


I had a quick look at it, no obvious strange things.
Quote:

1)
Most Oscillators in the NM have to attenuated pitch inputs, the G2 has one attenuated and one unattenuated one. The attenuated one delivers the signal at 100%. Right?
If I want to attenuate the unattenuated input, can I use e.g. Mixer 1-1? Does it make sense?

First part of the question : you are right.
Second part : The help file lists both knobs as being a type II attenuater, so I think you are right.
Quote:

2)
Since the Slave-output of e.g. the clock generator doesn't exist anymore, which one do I use?

This depends upon the situation. and it will need some carefull judgement sometimes. Blindly following an algorithm here would lead to inefficient (*) patches I think, but that's intuition based.

When it is a simple master slave configured circuit it can be rebuilt using the G2 master slave system based upon blue (exponential) signals.

When tricks are used there is no simple answer.

For the specific question about the clock generator: any LFO that can be set to 'Clk' mode seems to be suitable.

See http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-3215.html for some more information about gray matter.

(*) Question is how bad inefficiency really is, when the sole purpose is to translate Classic patches into G2 patches a sufficient criterium would be 'does it fit'.

Jan.
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sebber



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks a lot, Blue Hell.

Concerning the ClkGen: I'm sitting here for hours and just don't get it. And I can't find examples in the presets.

How can I control an Lfo with a ClkGen? I don't mean ticks with grey cables. I suppose when I find out I'll bite my nails because it's so obvious.

Meanwhile I'm going slightly mad.

I've got an Osc, an Lfo to control the pitch, and a ClkGen to control the Lfo.
I use LfoB which I can set to Clk.

Now, what do I have to do to have a Vibrato at 1Hz/60BPM? I tried everything except what you're going to tell me.

Thanks in advance,
sebber
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's tricks, not ticks ...
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mosc
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sebber wrote:
That's tricks, not ticks ...

You can edit posts after they have been submitted to correct errors like this. At the upper right of each post you submit there is an edit button.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Some of the discussion about the ClkGen takes place at

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-3162.html

Jan.
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Rob



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sebber wrote:

How can I control an Lfo with a ClkGen? I don't mean ticks with grey cables. I suppose when I find out I'll bite my nails because it's so obvious.

sebber


You can't. In fact the G2 Master Clock has to be used. With the advantage that all slots share this Master Clock.

So, you sync the LFO's to the Master Clock by setting them to Clk (not all LFOs have this feature). And you set the ClkGen to Master. Then start and stop the Master clock by the run/stop button, which activates/deactivates the Active output on the ClkGen, which can be used to reset the LFO's to an initial phase position (phase knob on the LFO's).

If the G2 is set to receive MIDI Clock and a MIDI Clock signal is present at the MIDI IN connector, this MIDI Clock will take over the G2 Master Clock timing and make both the ClkGen and the LFO's to be synced to the incoming MIDI Clock tempo, plus MIDI Start/Stop and Continue commands from the external MIDI sequencer (program).
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Rob, thats what I vaguely had in my mind I guess :-)

Jan.
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sebber



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, thanks a lot. It was looking for hours for something non existent.

Since I was stuck with this problem, the table hasn't improved much except for a misunderstanding in the mixer modules. Here you go:

NM ----- G2

In/Out
Keyboard - voice ----- Keyboard
2 Outputs ----- 2-Out + Mixer 1-1S (Mixer)
Poly Area In ----- Fx-In
Audio In ----- 2-In

Oscillator
Osc A ----- Osc B (+Mixer 1-1)
Osc B ----- Osc B (+Mixer 1-1)
Noise Generator ----- Noise

Envelope
ADSR-Env ----- Env ADSR
AD-Env ----- Env AD/R

Filter
Filter A ----- Flt LP
Filter B ----- Flt HP
Filter D ----- Flt Multi
Filter E ----- Flt Nord (+Mixer 1-1 (Mixer))
Filter F ----- Flt Classic (+Mixer 1-1 (Mixer))

LFO
LFO Slv B-E ----- Lfo B/C
Clock Generator ----- Clock Generator
Pattern Generator ----- [None]

Mixer
3 inputs mixer ----- Mix 4-1B
8 inputs mixer ----- Mix 8-1B
Pan ----- Pan
X-Fade ----- X-Fade
1 to 2 Fade ----- Fade 1-2
2 to 1 Fade ----- Fade 2-1
4-1 Switch ----- Switch 4-1 (Switch) + Mixer 4-1B (Mixer)
OR Mixer 4-1C
OnOff Switch On/Off Toggling (Switcher)
LevMult1 ----- LevAmp1

Audio
Level Shifter/Converter ----- Level Converter (Level)


Control
Constant ----- Constant (Level)
Control Mixer ----- Mixer 2-1B
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modular



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sebber wrote:
Since I was stuck with this problem, the table hasn't improved much except for a misunderstanding in the mixer modules. Here you go:

NM ----- G2

In/Out
Keyboard - voice ----- Keyboard
2 Outputs ----- 2-Out + Mixer 1-1S (Mixer)
Poly Area In ----- Fx-In
Audio In ----- 2-In

Oscillator
Osc A ----- Osc B (+Mixer 1-1)
Osc B ----- Osc B (+Mixer 1-1)
Noise Generator ----- Noise

Envelope
ADSR-Env ----- Env ADSR
AD-Env ----- Env AD/R

Filter
Filter A ----- Flt LP
Filter B ----- Flt HP
Filter D ----- Flt Multi
Filter E ----- Flt Nord (+Mixer 1-1 (Mixer))
Filter F ----- Flt Classic (+Mixer 1-1 (Mixer))

LFO
LFO Slv B-E ----- Lfo B/C
Clock Generator ----- Clock Generator
Pattern Generator ----- [None]

Mixer
3 inputs mixer ----- Mix 4-1B
8 inputs mixer ----- Mix 8-1B
Pan ----- Pan
X-Fade ----- X-Fade
1 to 2 Fade ----- Fade 1-2
2 to 1 Fade ----- Fade 2-1
4-1 Switch ----- Switch 4-1 (Switch) + Mixer 4-1B (Mixer)
OR Mixer 4-1C
OnOff Switch On/Off Toggling (Switcher)
LevMult1 ----- LevAmp1

Audio
Level Shifter/Converter ----- Level Converter (Level)


Control
Constant ----- Constant (Level)
Control Mixer ----- Mixer 2-1B


Just adding:

Spectral OSC ------> OSC Shape A
Formant OSC ------> OSC D (+ Filter VOICE)
OSC Slave B -------> OSC PM

I can't find OSC Sine Bank equivalent in G2 but I guess is like six Operators..

Is there somethinkg like PatternGenerator NM1 in G2 it should be:

PatternGen ----> RndPattern (In Random Section)

and more:

GainControl ----> LevMult (+Level Converter)
InvLevShift ----> LevelConverter
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sebber



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey modular,
great.

The idea of the list is to find modules that can do almost the same (or more) than the original ones. I suppose, there might be a similarity between 80-90%.

With Spectral Osc + Formant Osc I can't really find the similarity, though in this case it's hard to judge without being able to HEAR it. Spectral Osc is made from noise, whereas Osc Shape A comes from distinct waveforms. But the description in the manual sounds kind of similar, so I put "sim:" for similarity before it.

The NM Filter Voice has an equivalent in the Filter Voice in the G2. So I suppose the Formant Osc is something really different?

I also can't see the similarity between Osc Slave B and Osc PM.
Osc Slave B: "This slave oscillator produces a Square/Pulse waveform."
Osc PM: "The Phase Modulation Oscillator uses
the same basic technology for signal generation
as the DX7."
What do you think of Osc Slave FM and Osc PM?

I wanted to read something about the Random Generator in the User Manual, but they obviously forgot the Chapter on the Random Group!



Here's an updated list thanks to your help:

NM ----- G2

In/Out
Keyboard - voice ----- Keyboard
2 Outputs ----- 2-Out + Mixer 1-1S (Mixer)
Poly Area In ----- Fx-In
Audio In ----- 2-In

Oscillator
Osc A ----- Osc B +Mixer 1-1 (Mixer)
Osc B ----- Osc B +Mixer 1-1 (Mixer)
Noise Generator ----- Noise
Spectral Osc ----- sim: Osc Shape A
Osc Sine Bank ----- 6 x Osc C + Mix 8-1A (Mixer)

Envelope
ADSR-Env ----- Env ADSR
AD-Env ----- Env AD/R

Filter
Filter A ----- Flt LP
Filter B ----- Flt HP
Filter D ----- Flt Multi
Filter E ----- Flt Nord +Mixer 1-1 (Mixer)
Filter F ----- Flt Classic +Mixer 1-1 (Mixer)

LFO
LFO Slv B-E ----- Lfo B/C
Clock Generator ----- Clock Generator
Pattern Generator ----- [None]

Mixer
3 inputs mixer ----- Mix 4-1B
8 inputs mixer ----- Mix 8-1B
Pan ----- Pan
X-Fade ----- X-Fade
1 to 2 Fade ----- Fade 1-2
2 to 1 Fade ----- Fade 2-1
4-1 Switch ----- Switch 4-1 (Switch) + Mixer 4-1B ----- OR Mixer 4-1C
OnOff ----- Switch On/Off Toggling (Switcher)
LevMult1 ----- LevAmp1
Gain Control ----- Level Multiplier (Level) + Level Converter (Level) -----

Audio
Level Shifter/Converter ----- Level Converter (Level)

Control
Constant ----- Constant (Level)
Control Mixer ----- Mixer 2-1B (Mixer)



Would you be please so kind to tell where to find the modules the next time? It's so hard to find them sometimes if you don't know where they are.

Cheers,
sebber
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sebber wrote:

I wanted to read something about the Random Generator in the User Manual, but they obviously forgot the Chapter on the Random Group!


The RND modules were introduced in version 1.2, for which the manual is not available yet.

Jan.
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Rob



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

modular wrote:


Formant OSC ------> OSC D (+ Filter VOICE)



Humm, I oppose to this one.
A more exact one is the combination of an osc, a clocked random module and an inverter module.

Looks like this:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

It is what the FormantOsc does, but slightly more versatile due to the Step control. And note that there are in fact 2^24 possible seeds.

Instead of the 48kHz clock made with the inverter, another fairly high pitched osc can be used to create an abundance of lofi Speak&Spell stutters.

Last edited by Rob on Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, that's the information we need. Thanks for looking at this little table, this way I can be sure it's correct.
Can you say something about

Spectral OSC ------> OSC Shape A

OSC Slave B -------> OSC PM

,too?

Actually, I thought about listing only the modules which are more or less similar. When a module of the NM doesn't exist in the G2, like the Pattern Generator, well, then it doesn't exist.

But since you guys seem to find a solution (and a better one) for all the NM modules, I'm thinking of setting up a website when we're done here.
And for the Formant Osc we just print what you sent?

NM ----- G2

In/Out
Keyboard - voice ----- Keyboard
2 Outputs ----- 2-Out + Mixer 1-1S (Mixer)
Poly Area In ----- Fx-In
Audio In ----- 2-In

Oscillator
Osc A ----- Osc B +Mixer 1-1 (Mixer)
Osc B ----- Osc B +Mixer 1-1 (Mixer)
Noise Generator ----- Noise
Spectral Osc ----- sim: Osc Shape A
Osc Sine Bank ----- 6 x Osc C + Mix 8-1A (Mixer)
Osc Slave FM ----- Osc PM
Master Oscillator ----- Osc Master
Osc Slave C-E ----- Osc C

Envelope
ADSR-Env ----- Env ADSR
AD-Env ----- Env AD/R

Filter
Filter A ----- Flt LP
Filter B ----- Flt HP
Filter D ----- Flt Multi
Filter E ----- Flt Nord +Mixer 1-1 (Mixer)
Filter F ----- Flt Classic +Mixer 1-1 (Mixer)

LFO
LFO Slv B-E ----- Lfo B/C
Clock Generator ----- Clock Generator
Pattern Generator ----- [None]

Mixer
3 inputs mixer ----- Mix 4-1B
8 inputs mixer ----- Mix 8-1B
Pan ----- Pan
X-Fade ----- X-Fade
1 to 2 Fade ----- Fade 1-2
2 to 1 Fade ----- Fade 2-1
4-1 Switch ----- Switch 4-1 (Switch) + Mixer 4-1B
OR Mixer 4-1C
OnOff Switch On/Off Toggling (Switcher)
LevMult1 ----- LevAmp1
Gain Control ----- Level Multiplier (Level) + Level Converter (Level)

Audio
Level Shifter/Converter ----- Level Converter (Level)
Diode ----- Rectifier (Shaper)
Shaper ----- Shape Static (Shaper)


Control
Constant ----- Constant (Level)
Control Mixer ----- Mixer 2-1B (Mixer)
Partial Generator ----- Partial Quantizer (Note)




42/109 modules done!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sebber wrote:

Pattern Generator ----- [None]



Héhé, look again!

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ahh yes. If only it had a fwd/rev input... sigh...
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
If only it had a fwd/rev input... sigh...


This is getting obsessive Howard, you'll end up by requesting a special knob on the synth to control the speed of any patch from fast backwards through zero to fast forward.

Can patches be time reversed at all ?

Jan.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ha.. Obsessive - certainly, obsessed with quality. I think clocked events like pattern generators and sequencers should be bidirectional. It's similar to the obsessive expectation that on a modular system anything that has a knob should be controllable with a signal.

Please don't confuse my logical and reasonable suggestions with ones that are over-the-top. Twisted Evil

Really, pattern generators are often used as melodic generators, and retrograde motion is one of the oldest and most enduring musical techniques. Retrograde motion should be a design value in every modular synthesizer, just like voltage control. --- IMHO --- In My Humble Obsession.
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