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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Moog 907A / 914 - topology Fixed Filter Bank PCB
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Interested?
No - no need for a FFB
7%
 7%  [ 3 ]
No - not without real inductors
5%
 5%  [ 2 ]
Yes - as long as you get "the sound" with your technology
86%
 86%  [ 33 ]
Total Votes : 38

Author Message
mono-poly



Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 935
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why not go for a Buchla 294/295 clone?
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mono-poly wrote:
Why not go for a Buchla 294/295 clone?


because this is already designed and i guess it sounds good.

Buchla clones is only for wanabee's Wink

Only motivations plz,no de-motivations Very Happy
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Update

This is just an update for the concept; not presenting any board previews yet. But I'm thinking about this project again.

Some people want inductors. Real inductors. They are hard to make - you basically have to wind your own coils - but some people want them anyway. And there are reasons for this. Inductors don't create noise. They may pick up noise/hum from an external source, but they don't contribute their own noise like Gyrator or GIC filters.

My concept, using the original Moog topology with GICs, will also allow the use of real inductors. So I plan to offer both options on the same PCB.

You can either populate the boards with low-noise GIG circuits (basically low impedance active circuitry with opamps that can drive the required current) - or you can omit the GIC stuff and use real inductors instead. I'll provide footprins for both (interleaved in order not to waste too much board space), and you can also use inductors with other form factor and connect them to the board with twisted wire.

There will also be an option to build the big filter bank (914) or the small one (907A), using a set of 3, or 2 PCBs.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must say that does sound very interesting, but I have to ask ( Very Happy ) will you be able to provide any info on how to make the inductors, or the specs so that we could possible source/make our own?

Wink

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

With both option u made everyone happy.

Personaly,as long as i can fit the pcb(s) behind a 5u front am in,otherwise not.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Bad Producer wrote:
I must say that does sound very interesting, but I have to ask ( Very Happy ) will you be able to provide any info on how to make the inductors, or the specs so that we could possible source/make our own?

Wink


I did this some years ago for a handfull of inductors.
You choose a core with high aL factor, like this:
http://de.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=2126609
and then you put on a few hundred turns of thin wire.
It's not as complicated as it sounds, but it takes time and it's more expensive than a GIC circuit with a decent dual opamp.

You can see one of these RM cores in my modified Farfisa VIP500. I needed a resonant circuit, and adding a single 560mH inductor was an easier solution than adding active circuitry in that case:
http://www.jhaible.de/farfisa/jh_farfisa.html

I had to put the inductor off-board to avoid the pick up of a magnetic field ( http://www.jhaible.de/farfisa/vip500_jh_LM_modifications_pic.jpg ), but normally, these cores can be soldered directly into a PCB.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
With both option u made everyone happy.

Personaly,as long as i can fit the pcb(s) behind a 5u front am in,otherwise not.


Boards will be the same size as always, 160mm x 100mm

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Update:

http://www.jhaible.de/ffb/fixed_filter_bank.html

(No footprint for Inductors on the board as intended. But you can still use real inductors and mount them off-board.)

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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decaying.sine



Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 92
Location: New Haven, CT, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interested in 1-2 boards.
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
Location: Germany
Audio files: 24

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

decaying.sine wrote:
Interested in 1-2 boards.


You will need at least 2 board, for the 907.
Or 3 boards, for the 914.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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decaying.sine



Joined: Aug 31, 2009
Posts: 92
Location: New Haven, CT, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oops. I meant 1-2 sets of three boards Very Happy
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intercorni



Joined: Jun 04, 2007
Posts: 50
Location: hamburg

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be very interested in 3 boards.
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keithwin



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 83
Location: uk

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would take at least 3 boards for a 914, possibly six.

cheers

Keith
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ach_gott



Joined: Sep 09, 2008
Posts: 79
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm in for 6 (2x3). Poor backlog Shocked
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Like i wrote before,am in for 2x2 pcb's
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forbin



Joined: Jan 29, 2009
Posts: 116
Location: Fremantle, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are some quite useful tips for inductor winding and core sourcing on the Gyraf Audio website. They have a design for a Pultec equalizer that uses thermionic valves. Look under DIY and then Pultec at: http://www.gyraf.dk/
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dcreatorx



Joined: Jun 02, 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Barcelona

PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 4:34 am    Post subject: boards Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I will take 1 set of 3 boards too Jurgen, let's go for it !
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numbertalk



Joined: May 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Count me in for a set - will probably opt for the 2-board 907 version.
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vtl5c3



Joined: Sep 08, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm in for a pair, so I can make a 907 clone. I'll use the YuSynth layout to do the 914. More wallet friendly that way!
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

1. Enjoy the new pictures:

http://www.jhaible.de/ffb/fixed_filter_bank.html

2. Do *not* buy a lot of OPA2134's for this, as the prewiew pictures did suggest.

Use NE5532 or better(!) RC4558 for alle those simulated inductors.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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mono-poly



Joined: Jul 07, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Juergen is there info how many windings you need on the inductors etc?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mono-poly wrote:
Juergen is there info how many windings you need on the inductors etc?


I will publish the inductance of each inductor. The number of windings n then depends on the a_L of the core you choose:

L = a_L * n**2 =>

n = SQRT( L / a_L )

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I changed the thread title to adapt it to the latest development.

BTW, this modulte can be powered with +/-15V or +/-12V, so you can use it in +/-12V modular systems without changes.

And you can run it as a standalone module with a 16V AC wallwart or mains transformer, of course.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
Posts: 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made some quick and dirty audio demos on the weekend - under suboptimal conditions, with allogator clips and field recorder, but I think it shows some of how this will sound:

http://www.jhaible.de/ffb/701_demo2.mp3

http://www.jhaible.de/ffb/701_demo1.mp3 (sorry for the hum - it's the dirty setup, not the filterbank)

Project description and pictures here:

http://www.jhaible.de/ffb/fixed_filter_bank.html

PCBs will be available on 15.07.2010

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:

I will publish the inductance of each inductor


http://www.jhaible.de/ffb/907_high_induct_discrete_psu_overlay.pdf
http://www.jhaible.de/ffb/907_low_induct_overlay.pdf

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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