Keyboard temperaments

ffransis · Joined: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 31

Following the discussion I initiated a while back in the forum, and an email exchange with a sympathetic Clavia staffer, I propose a module to allow the definition of different keyboard temperaments. The ability to adjust the tuning to just intonation (based on a user specified tonic), meantone, Werckmeister, Kirnberger and other temperaments would be useful, as would completely user-defined scales.

[editor's note: I added the poll question. --mosc]

blue hell · Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:17 pm Post subject:

I'm not a keyboard player but I think this is a must for a synth of this caliber.

Apart from a strict keyboard implementation (as is seemed to be proposed here) for other scales I'd like to addditionally see a modular approach. I'm thinking of a table module with 128 entries for all the cases where the notes are not to be determined by a keyboard or by MIDI.

Such a table module could be usefull for other purposes as well, for instance for long sequencers. But for tuning purposes it would have to have a somewhat large number of entiries.

Such a tuning system, or such a table module, would ideally be able to read from and write to the computer disk a list of numbers as a file.

This way a tuning library can be built on disk and distributed over the internet without the need to go into specific patches.

Only the current set of numbers will have to be stored into the G2, loading and saving presets is only relevant when editing the patch.

Some presets that are supposed to be seen a lot could be supported as directly selectable through buttons or a drop down list, but in my opinion the filing system would be more important.

Jan.

[Edit: next time I'll try to read the original post better before I write, I'm a bit tired I guess]

mosc · Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject:

Yes, a generalized table lookup that could be applied to tuning would be useful. Even the original Moog Modular had a tuning feature for the keyboard. I forget what the module number was, but there was some large panel of pots (potentiometers), one for each note of the keyboard. Not only could you tune it to special tunings like those already mentioned, but you could set it up to play wacky stuff where adjacent notes on the keyboard were octaves apart. This was a great creativity boost for keyboard players who tend to get stuck playing riffs. Jazz players loved this because they could get out of their ruts. So it might be nice to see a module with lots of knobs, like 12. If you wanted more, you could stack them. Come to think of it, I like knobs more than tables.

GovernorSilver · Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:34 am Post subject:

I voted Yes.

I appreciate Palle's contribution of a microtuning patch for the G2, but I am concerned Clavia will use it as an excuse to not create the module that ffrancis proposes. Palle's patch cannot read tuning files in the widely used formats (.scl, .tun). This is not Palle's fault, of course - it is a limitation of the G2 OS itself. Being able to quickly audition multiple alternate tunings by the loading of different files instead of manually retuning every note would be a tremendous boon.

ffransis · Joined: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 31

ffransis · Joined: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 31

Fozzie · Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:45 am Post subject:

I would like to see other temperaments, but IMHO it is not realistic to expect the G2 or it's editor to load other files (be it scale model files, samples or anything else) as the hardware is probably not suited for this and it would involve a major change in G2 'paradigm'.

ffransis · Joined: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 31

mosc · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:11 am Post subject:

Editor's note: I split this topic off to How Tos, here: http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-3312.html
If there is more discussion on this topic relative the the G2 Wish List, please add them here. General disccusion of tunings should be there. --mosc]

Well, this discussion which is now there only reinforces my belief that these alternative tunings could be very valuable. It seems that in the electronic age, a top flite intrument like the G2 should provide the opportunity to use virtually any tunings possible. Maybe in the future, people will look back to the days when virtually everything was played in equal temperament (1750 to 2005(?)) as the dark ages of music. Who knows?

seraph · Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:54 am Post subject:

GovernorSilver · Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2004 3:06 pm Post subject:

ffrancis,

Have you pointed your Clavia developer contact to the Anamark tuning source code? I know a French magazine writer who successfully convinced a few soft synth developers to add microtuning to their synths by simply showing them where they could pick up this freely available C soure code for reading tuning files:

http://www.mark-henning.de/files/tuning.zip

ffransis · Joined: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 31

ffransis · Joined: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 31

Maybe Clavia could implement Hermode tuning in addition to just intonation and non-equal temperaments. Comments from those with experience of Hermode tuning (e.g., Virus synth) would be appreciated.

mosc · Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject:

This topic discusses Hermode Tuning
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-3712.html

ffransis · Joined: Jun 24, 2004 Posts: 31

Despite what I wrote before about waiting to buy a G2 until Clavia implemented microtuning, yesterday I went out and bought a G2 Engine. Tomorrow I should take delivery of an expansion board, but it'll take me some time before I make heavy enough use of the G2 that I'll really need the expansion. Unlike those of you new G2 owners who survive on coffee and pizza, and refrain from "servicing" your partners, I'm rationing my time with the synth, and will study it a little bit at a time.

Clavia: please give us a microtuning facility, and we can then turn our G2s into proper keyboard controlled musical instruments!!

mosc · Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 4:48 pm Post subject:

Congrats...

I'm pretty sure you can figure out a way to build your own microtuning gizzmos. A micro tuning patch or even two would still leave you two or three patches for synthesizers. There's lots you can do without built-in support.

The G2 is really a very flexible real-time MIDI processor.

GovernorSilver · Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 1:55 pm Post subject:

My impression of HMT is that it is limited to 12-notes/octave tunings. If they want to implement HMT, they need to find a way to do it that doesn't impose this limitation. The z3ta+ softsynth has a reportedly excellent implementation in this regard - it supports both HMT and full MIDI range retuning from Scala files.

cebec · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:06 am Post subject:

AHA! Here's the thread... Well, here's to keeping the issue of adding microtuning to the G2 alive...

Kassen · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:28 pm Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:11 pm Post subject:

No, I didn't know that. What tunings did he use on the pianos he used for the piano concerti?

Kassen · Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:11 am Post subject:

That´s a very good question, I´m not sure. I do think it´s reasonably sure that Bach used Werckmeister.

GovernorSilver · Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject:

Upon revisiting this thread, I would say that adding full support of the MIDI Tuning Standard (MTS) would be sufficient. If Clavia's development team cannot implement support of tuning files, MTS support would be an acceptable alternative.

GovernorSilver · Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:04 pm Post subject:

cebec · Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject:

no, they haven't, yet.

GovernorSilver · Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject:

That's a shame. One of the reasons I sold my G2 was an increasingly strong hunch that the Clavia team would never take this feature seriously. Contrast this with Zoltan Janosy of the Akai EWI4000S Wind Synth development team openly requesting input on microtuning features.

That's right, I actually owned a Nord Modular G2 for a few months. When I saw on the Clavia site that they accepted Palle Dahlstedt's patch as "the solution", rather than a temporary fix, to microtuning on the G2, I knew I made the right decision.