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magman
Joined: Feb 04, 2009 Posts: 363 Location: Liverpool, UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:26 am Post subject:
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Juergen,
Personally, I would like you to carry on with this project if possible.
My first reason is purely economic. Your boards tend to stay around one price of multiples of 27 Euros, and I suspect the BBD board would just be a single board. The Blacet board is $89, which is expensive for a bare PCB (even if there are a couple of free extra's at the moment).
Secondly, the phrase "Blacet boards being available again" is very critical. If you offer boards, they are likely to be available for a relatively long period, as long as there is a demand. The Blacet boards were only made available again as some old stock had been found and more recently an incorrect PCB order has added some more availability. I currently don't have confidence that these PCB's will be available long term.
Last, but no means least, I suspect your design would likely be different in some ways than the Blacet design. It's this variation that makes DIY synth building so interesting.
Regards
Magman |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:48 am Post subject:
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magman wrote: | Juergen,
Personally, I would like you to carry on with this project if possible.
My first reason is purely economic. Your boards tend to stay around one price of multiples of 27 Euros, and I suspect the BBD board would just be a single board. The Blacet board is $89, which is expensive for a bare PCB (even if there are a couple of free extra's at the moment).
Secondly, the phrase "Blacet boards being available again" is very critical. If you offer boards, they are likely to be available for a relatively long period, as long as there is a demand. The Blacet boards were only made available again as some old stock had been found and more recently an incorrect PCB order has added some more availability. I currently don't have confidence that these PCB's will be available long term.
Last, but no means least, I suspect your design would likely be different in some ways than the Blacet design. It's this variation that makes DIY synth building so interesting.
Regards
Magman |
Oops, I wasn't aware the Blacet was so expensive.
What I have / had in mind was one board for a mono version, or two boards (2 * 27 Euros) for pingpong-stereo a la Dynacord SRS-56.
Well, nothing is decided yet.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:50 am Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: |
I know, and I think what I've underlined in the above, has happened with the Blacet boards being available again.
JH. |
Juergen, no matter what u deside,but plz can you give confirmation asap if you drop the project completely or finaly plan to release a delay pcb this year? |
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mark_olson
Joined: Oct 26, 2006 Posts: 177 Location: Lawrence, Kansas
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:33 am Post subject:
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Does anyone else see humor in there being a delay in the development of a delay board?
Anyway...
Jürgen:
My understanding is that the projects you have made available have been made so out of some sense of intellectual generosity. I cannot believe that whatever small profit you might see from selling boards could justify your activities. So I could not expect you to develop anything, really do anything at all, out of a sense of obligation to us synth diyers.
I will never pay $89US for a bare PCB. I have a couple of MN3005s in a drawer. If you develop a circuit: great! If you do not: oh well... This is just a hobby for me. If I was in business I would understand that I should expect to pay somebody for research and development I could not do myself.
If you do decide to develop a circuit and offer a board, I will commit to buying one. No demands, no pressure, just a little encouragement if it is welcome
Mark |
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jhaible
Joined: May 25, 2007 Posts: 2014 Location: Germany
Audio files: 24
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:53 am Post subject:
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mark_olson wrote: |
My understanding is that the projects you have made available have been made so out of some sense of intellectual generosity. I cannot believe that whatever small profit you might see from selling boards could justify your activities. |
Thanks for your kind words.
These projects are fun, but they also are indeed part of my income (I changed my main job in the industry to part-time), and the revenues serve to bring food on my table und to support my kids. So there is a risk of only selling 50 boards and having worked for nothing (or just for the "fun" part).
Especially with a very limited resource of MN3005 chips.
I might still do it anyway, despite the doubtful prospect. Just don't press me for a decision.
JH. _________________ "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f) |
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henrikgo
Joined: Jul 05, 2008 Posts: 40 Location: sweden
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:56 am Post subject:
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I have really been looking forward to this module, it would be a shame if it never gets realized. You make very nice modules J and I have no doubts you would make a more interesting module than the Blacet one. You can still get the 3005s, both dalbani & utsource have them. I really hope you decide to continue this project and I don't think I'm alone feeling that way. |
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magman
Joined: Feb 04, 2009 Posts: 363 Location: Liverpool, UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:03 am Post subject:
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Jürgen,
I have a suggestion. It can be difficult to measure the popularity of the various projects you have on your development stack, so why not try a set of Polls.
If you started a Poll thread for each of the outstanding projects, with the Polls being for the priority people would prefer for each project, you could then get a measure of how popular a particular project was, as well as to the community's preference for the most interesting.
Of the outstanding projects I've spotted so far, I can find:
Analogue Physical Modelling
BBD Delay
Living Vocoder
SEM20 Expander If you had a Poll for each project with the following poll items:
1st Priority
2nd Priority
3rd Priority
4th Priority
Not interested That should go some way to helping measure the interest around your project queue.
Of course this should only be a guide, as only you can measure the amount of time and best return for this time as you develop these projects.
Regards
Magman |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:05 am Post subject:
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mark_olson wrote: | Does anyone else see humor in there being a delay in the development of a delay board?
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No,not realy, its a hobby but at the same time he is a businessman,you can see that when you look at the prices he sell occasionaly his populated pcb's.
He's not the guy that plan to work for peanuts,and he's damn right.
First of all its the fault of those guys poluating his topic with that blaced board,almost one page long,they should has created a seperate topic in the general diy forum,not here. Its the same like pissing in juergen's face,but they did not think far enough ,now you can see the result,pretty understandable. |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009 Posts: 161 Location: Brighton
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:06 am Post subject:
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Quote: | Well, nothing is decided yet.
JH. |
Good!
I'm sure many would agree with me in saying that an $89 time machine pcb is no substitute for the unique JH product we were looking eagerly forward to.
No pressure of course |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:16 am Post subject:
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jhaible wrote: | So there is a risk of only selling 50 boards and having worked for nothing (or just for the "fun" part).
Especially with a very limited resource of MN3005 chips.
I might still do it anyway, despite the doubtful prospect. Just don't press me for a decision.
JH. |
Remember that for this project you posted clearly that you 'need' minimum 50 orders.
As now that some of your popular pcb's sold much much higher quantity and are still in demand,its understandable working to made something you know you will sell only 50 is pure time waste.
The hobby part is morphing completely into bisiness thoughts.
I completely agree with that
BUT
In respect for those that did invest in MN3005 IC's you should give a quick responce now if yes or not you plan to release a delay pcb.. |
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bugfight
Joined: Aug 02, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Arlington, TX USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:02 am Post subject:
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i will just say that i would still order 2 of yours if you make them.
it will be a disappointment if you don't but i would hold no ill will.
maybe a pre-order would make it worthwhile? |
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008 Posts: 809 Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:51 pm Post subject:
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I second all of bugfights remarks and also would order at least 2.
Of all of jurgens great projects this is the one i have followed with
most interest it would be a shame to see it die |
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magman
Joined: Feb 04, 2009 Posts: 363 Location: Liverpool, UK
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject:
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I've just had another thought (dangerous I know )
Why do you just have to have one type of BBD on the board?
If there is enough real estate on the PCB, it may be possible to design the board so that it could take either the MN3005 or something more modern, like the Coolaudio MN3205 (or a pair of BL3208's). This would give the board a wider audience and lifetime as well as being usable for the older chips that people have available.
Now I'm obviously not designing the board (I know that I haven't anything like the skills that Jürgen has), so I've no idea how difficult this would be or how different the characteristics of the various chips are, but its a thought.
I'll go and hide in the corner again now and see if this post has any kind of butterfly effect.
Regards
Magman |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:11 am Post subject:
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bugfight wrote: | .
maybe a pre-order would make it worthwhile? |
And so if there are not enough pre-orders ,juergen pays everyone back and pay all the paypal fees of each? lol
I think there are just near for 50 pcs that members showed interest to have a delay pcb and that is (now not) enough (anymore),so pre-orders doesn't matter.
If you have to design and R&D a circuit from scratch for 50pcs its just a total 100% time waste. |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009 Posts: 161 Location: Brighton
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Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:37 am Post subject:
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I'd be shocked if JH didnt sell a lot more than 50 if he did go ahead with this.
A JH delay would attract interest far beyond the regulars on these pages I reckon. And the chips are still available if a little pricy. |
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tomcat
Joined: Oct 14, 2005 Posts: 141 Location: earth
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Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:07 pm Post subject:
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We can start a count how many people have mn3005 on hand for the delayed JH delay board. So it would be easier for Juergen to see if its worth to design the new board.
In my opinion ... yes please give us a JH delay
Anyway, the MN3005 ist only obsolete as NOS part. You can get new ones (well 3205) from coolaudio:
http://www.coolaudio.com/products.html
Quote: |
V3205SD
Functionally compatible to MN3205*
The V3205SD is a 4096-stage low-noise, low-voltage BBD analog delay line that provides analog signal delays of up to 204.8 ms and is particularly suitable for the generation of sound effects (reverb, echo, phaser, flanger, etc.) in audio equipment such as karaoke microphones, guitar effects pedals, etc. Only available together with V3102.
V3102
Functionally compatible to MN3102*
The V3102 is a universal CMOS LSI to generate a two-phase clock signal of low output impedance, perfectly suitable to drive BBDs up to 4096 stages, such as V3207, V3208, V3205, etc. |
You can get small quantities from Banzai:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/V3205.html
So go on Juergen! |
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JoeMorris
Joined: Apr 26, 2009 Posts: 161 Location: Brighton
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:44 am Post subject:
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MN3005 and MN3205 arent the same thing unfortunately.... |
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Moogah
Joined: Dec 26, 2007 Posts: 26 Location: USA
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 10:22 am Post subject:
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Speaking as someone who has a pair of DIY time machines, I was still very much looking forward to this project I've got plenty of MN3005's on hand, but wouldn't have any hurt feelings if you decide to shelve this.
Delay is such a useful function that I don't see a problem with having a pair of blacet's and a pair of JH's in the same system.
I would also be willing to take the risk of pre-ordering if it clarified things! |
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tomcat
Joined: Oct 14, 2005 Posts: 141 Location: earth
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:34 am Post subject:
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JoeMorris wrote: | MN3005 and MN3205 arent the same thing unfortunately.... |
3205 is low voltage. You can build a circuit which accepts both. Has been done before. |
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Funky40
Joined: Sep 24, 2005 Posts: 875 Location: Swiss
Audio files: 1
G2 patch files: 5
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject:
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henrikgo wrote: | You make very nice modules J and I have no doubts you would make a more interesting module than the Blacet one. |
i'm in no doubt too. |
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delayed
Joined: Jun 24, 2008 Posts: 130 Location: TN
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Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject:
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I still want 2 or 3 boards for this project. I have the 3005 chips waiting for the project.
It would be a good idea to double up with the 32 series chip. That should make the board long lasting. Madbean did it with his Aquaboy project.
And if you did not want to fit it on the same board perhaps you could design a small daughter board that would make it work with the lower voltage chips. |
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Luka
Joined: Jun 29, 2007 Posts: 1003 Location: Melb.
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whomper
Joined: Dec 15, 2007 Posts: 201 Location: Israel
Audio files: 2
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:46 pm Post subject:
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I will also gladly buy at least one board. It will surely be of high quality as all of JH's work and i look forward for this project.
Have a time machine, aqua boy, PT2399 (?) and another pedal based. I just can't have enough delays... _________________ Erez Yaary
Home Page: http://www.yaary.com
Buy my CDs at http://www.mellowjet.de |
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sduck
Joined: Dec 16, 2007 Posts: 459 Location: Nashville
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject:
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I'd still get one or 2. I already have a TM, and have no interest in another one, but would gladly augment it with a JH design delay.
And I'm one of the ones who "invested" in a bunch of those 3005 chips - but it's no matter to me if you decide to not design this. I can surely find something else to do with these chips if need be. And I can wait also. |
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TekniK
Joined: Aug 10, 2008 Posts: 1059
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Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:35 am Post subject:
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all the ppl that desires a pcb are now gonna posting again in a row,isn't this a bit silly,you just have to look in the previous pages of this topic ?
It will stay at the 50pcs anyhow. |
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