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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
wish: BBD Delay
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2thick4uni



Joined: Feb 20, 2009
Posts: 113
Location: UK

PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:31 am    Post subject: wish: BBD Delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jurgen,

Would there be any possibility that in the future you release a BBD delay PCB for a module similar to the delay section of your JH Matrix FX synth?

I think there could be a lot of interest in such a project (certainly from me anyhow Very Happy ) as there are very few other SDIY BBD delays out there, the only one I know of is Blacet Time Machine and it is no longer available.




Allan
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: wish: BBD Delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

2thick4uni wrote:
Hi Jurgen,

Would there be any possibility that in the future you release a BBD delay PCB for a module similar to the delay section of your JH Matrix FX synth?

I think there could be a lot of interest in such a project (certainly from me anyhow Very Happy ) as there are very few other SDIY BBD delays out there, the only one I know of is Blacet Time Machine and it is no longer available.

Allan


Are there enought MN3005 chips out there?

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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b-funk



Joined: Jul 17, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: wish: BBD Delay Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:


Are there enought MN3005 chips out there?

JH.


yes, but expensive...
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Luka



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

isnt there a new company producing BBDs
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3vcos



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The companies that are currently producing bbds are making mn3205 copies not mn3005 copies. The 3205 was a low voltage version of the 3005.NOS 3005s are still available but cost about $20usd each where a new 3205 copy costs about $1.50usd.
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whomper



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3vcos wrote:
NOS 3005s are still available but cost about $20usd each where a new 3205 copy costs about $1.50usd.


I recently searched for some MN3205 (as I bought them several months ago for 2-3$ a piece) only to find out they too are expensive now, small bear sells them for $15.95 a piece and they are rare on eBay, about $20 a piece.

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Spratty



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

$20 seems pretty cheap compared to prices I've seen...

I'd hazard at a guess it'd be a better idea to use something newer for this project if you really wanted a BBD delay.. That being said BYOC has a pedal delay kit...not sure which chip(s) they use...

Spratty Wink
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Spratty wrote:
$20 seems pretty cheap compared to prices I've seen...


Right. The question is, how many of these are around today, and will be around in 6 months, when such a PCB could be finished?
I'd hate to invest 2000 Dollars in a PCB run and prototype, and then sit on the boards ...

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Spratty



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a thought....CoolAudio V3205 (4k bbd, $5/a piece) might be a possibility...assuming they are still available new in commercial quantities. I have no experience with these chips though, so I couldn't comment on the results.

Spratty Wink
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b-funk



Joined: Jul 17, 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

maybe it is possible to use 2 mn3008 instead of 1 mn3005? those are more commonly available... for nearly the same price as mn3005, though.

best,

tobias
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2thick4uni



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are a few sellers advertising them on ebay for around $20 to $25 each.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-MN3005-ANALOG-DELAY-IC-CHIP-NEW_W0QQitemZ270350719351QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Pcs-MN3005-IC-Chips-4096-STAGE-LONG-DELAY-BBD-ICs_W0QQitemZ370123688312QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Electronic_Components?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

It could be that the best solution would be for someone to organise a to group buy, there are a good number still available with wholesalers:-

http://www.1sourcecomponents.com/partinfo/mn3005.htm

As it was my idea I'd be happy to organise the group buy if the interest is there. How many boards need to be sold to make it worthwhile designing and fabricating Pcb's?

The other alternative as suggested by b-funk is to use 2 x mn3008 instead - this is still used in several guitar pedals and supply is ok. Would s/n be worse using 2 x mn3008 instead of 1 x mn3005?
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Spratty wrote:
$20 seems pretty cheap compared to prices I've seen...


Right. The question is, how many of these are around today, and will be around in 6 months
JH.


i find 20$ also very cheap.
I was surching several times the last two years for MN3005, and they became in this time lots more rare.

This auctions are interesting, last year was nothing available wehn i surched.
There seem to be movement...............




my opinion:
we should get first BBDs !
organised or not.
Better organised in my opinion.( maybe open a own thread for this )
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

my opinion about the BBD Delay:


it would be VERY VERY great to get a BBD Delay from you Jürgen.
I mailed for this i think early last year and asked for a BBD with 1V/oct tracking for VCO usage.
ok, another thing.............



The Delay SHOULD have 2x3005 = 8192 stages in my Opinion.
4096 is not really enough to get a really flexible Delay.
btw. Bruce from Modcan seems not to continue animore his analog Delay.............( he has a 8192stager )Superdelay 30B


4096stages are not that much fun for specific delay use for me
Ok, the Doepfer 4096stager has no expander circuitry, one could make more with 4096stages.
The fun with the Deopfer is the morphing between Delay, Reverb, Resonatorsounds and to get pitchshiftingeffects ( its pitchshifting not ? ).
the fun is how you can move and animate sounds in a strange way.

In my Opinion there is open field to bring the BDD FX into new dimensions Exclamation



hmmm, maybe set up a vote to see who has allready some 3005ers in their hand. Idea
my ones are preserved to expand my doepfer to 8196stages and get a second one,
but i could change my plans Wink
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:

In my Opinion there is open field to bring the BDD FX into new dimensions Exclamation


If I go in such a direction, it'd probably be something like that:

2 (or more ) sockets for MN3005's
A clock generator with expo and 1/x function
A tracking VCF that can be bypassed
A resonance loop with vactrol and / or geramnium diode limiting
A compander like the Arp Quadra Phaser, adapted to BBDs as I did in the Storm Tide.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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kokoon



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm definitely interested in this, one or two boards.
voltage control sounds sweet!
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2thick4uni



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
If I go in such a direction, it'd probably be something like that:

2 (or more ) sockets for MN3005's
A clock generator with expo and 1/x function
A tracking VCF that can be bypassed
A resonance loop with vactrol and / or geramnium diode limiting
A compander like the Arp Quadra Phaser, adapted to BBDs as I did in the Storm Tide.


Sounds great to me, exactly what I had in mind and more Very Happy
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ach_gott



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shiver me timbers, my soldering iron is aching for a Haible BBD delay.
Smile
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ach_gott wrote:
Shiver me timbers, my soldering iron is aching for a Haible BBD delay.
Smile


I'm not convinced there will be enough demand, yet ...
If there is, sure, I'll go for it sooner lor later.

JH.

_________________
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
Funky40 wrote:

In my Opinion there is open field to bring the BDD FX into new dimensions Exclamation


If I go in such a direction, it'd probably be something like that:

2 (or more ) sockets for MN3005's
A clock generator with expo and 1/x function
A tracking VCF that can be bypassed
A resonance loop with vactrol and / or geramnium diode limiting
A compander like the Arp Quadra Phaser, adapted to BBDs as I did in the Storm Tide.

JH.

That sounds very cool !
What is the minimal number of boards that you have to go for ? would 50 be enough ? hmm, i fear you like to count with 100.


...........................................................................


The Blacet Time Machines goes secondhand for 450$.
I'm shure there are enough people who would be willing to pay more for a Board if you cannot reach bigger quantity.
I could sell my doepfer BBDs if your board would be good for short and long BBDs,
that means i could take quite some more
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
jhaible wrote:
Funky40 wrote:

In my Opinion there is open field to bring the BDD FX into new dimensions Exclamation


If I go in such a direction, it'd probably be something like that:

2 (or more ) sockets for MN3005's
A clock generator with expo and 1/x function
A tracking VCF that can be bypassed
A resonance loop with vactrol and / or geramnium diode limiting
A compander like the Arp Quadra Phaser, adapted to BBDs as I did in the Storm Tide.

JH.

That sounds very cool !
What is the minimal number of boards that you have to go for ? would 50 be enough ? hmm, i fear you like to count with 100.


...........................................................................


The Blacet Time Machines goes secondhand for 450$.
I'm shure there are enough people who would be willing to pay more for a Board if you cannot reach bigger quantity.
I could sell my doepfer BBDs if your board would be good for short and long BBDs,
that means i could take quite some more


Yes, 50 is where I roughly break even (without counting my time).
So with 50 PCBs pre-ordered, and more to be expected, it makes sense to start a project.

Big question is why has John discontinued his Time Machine, if there is so much demand for a delay, and enough supply of BBD chips?

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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ach_gott



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, thinking way back now, but iirc Mr. B said that he was bored of the TM and that he wasn't interested in putting more than the one-last-run together. He said he had some BBD chips left over and was thinking of putting together a chorus module at the end of (that) year. That never happened, obviously.

It was a *large* PCB and most of what he did was assembled modules.

But I may be misremembering... anyone?
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electang



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, 50 is where I roughly break even (without counting my time).
So with 50 PCBs pre-ordered, and more to be expected, it makes sense to start a project.



I would be in for one Very Happy

m
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creatorlars



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have been aching for a good BBD delay project, count me in!!
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mark_olson



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jurgen:

If it is interest you are trying to gauge - I would buy a board if you offered them!

Mark
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ach_gott



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And I'd put in for a two as well, in the event that my earlier expressions of enthusiasm were unclear.
bounce bounce bounce
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