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Streaming evolutionary music
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uncoolbob



Joined: Feb 14, 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:07 am    Post subject: Streaming evolutionary music
Subject description: Evolectronica
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Hi everyone.

This could be the place to mention my new (<1 month) evolving music site http://evolectronica.com which has 24/7 streaming evolutionary music. It would be great to have some more "like minds" contributing to the fitness function!


It's loop based (is there any other feasible approach?) and there are four different channels (different tempo, different source samples). There are evolving synths built in to my system which are pretty cool too.

Once you're connected with an audio player which shows the track names correctly for a shoutcast stream (xmms, iTunes, RealPlayer definitely work), then the interface is very simple - just click "I like it" or "I don't like it" and then the loop number (track name).

Don't expect immediate results though - the populations have 100 individuals and progress is accordingly slow!

All constructive criticism welcome!

cheers,
Bob

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GaryRea



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmm...well, that's different, alright. Is there anything there that's more...relaxing, less frenetic? Are these all your loops, or are they contributed by whoever signs up?

Gary

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uncoolbob



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GaryRea wrote:
Hmm...well, that's different, alright. Is there anything there that's more...relaxing, less frenetic? Are these all your loops, or are they contributed by whoever signs up?

Gary


Hi Gary,

channels 2 and 3 are a bit more relaxing, and you're welcome to vote down all the hectic ear-crunching stuff!

the loops are generated on the fly, all i decide is which samples to throw in at the beginning (and the tempo, time sig, a few other things).

the loops you hear now are the culmination of all the different users' (registered and unregistered) feedback.

does that make sense?

cheers,
Bob.

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GaryRea



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

uncoolbob wrote:
GaryRea wrote:
Hmm...well, that's different, alright. Is there anything there that's more...relaxing, less frenetic? Are these all your loops, or are they contributed by whoever signs up?

Gary


Hi Gary,

channels 2 and 3 are a bit more relaxing, and you're welcome to vote down all the hectic ear-crunching stuff!

the loops are generated on the fly, all i decide is which samples to throw in at the beginning (and the tempo, time sig, a few other things).

the loops you hear now are the culmination of all the different users' (registered and unregistered) feedback.

does that make sense?

cheers,
Bob.


Thanks for the reply, Bob. So, are these generative music samples, then? If so, what software is used?

Gary

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uncoolbob



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GaryRea wrote:

Thanks for the reply, Bob. So, are these generative music samples, then? If so, what software is used?
Gary


Generative music loops, yes. The drum/percussion samples are just normal samples, and the synth sounds are from my software.

It's my own code behind the site. Genetic programming is the main idea.

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GaryRea



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

uncoolbob wrote:
GaryRea wrote:

Thanks for the reply, Bob. So, are these generative music samples, then? If so, what software is used?
Gary


Generative music loops, yes. The drum/percussion samples are just normal samples, and the synth sounds are from my software.

It's my own code behind the site. Genetic programming is the main idea.


I see. So, you're using DNA sequence data, then? One of my hobbies is genealogy and I'm the founder of a DNA project for my surname, so I deal with Y-DNA alleles all the time. Basically, just strings of numbers. I wonder what my DNA would sound like? Wink I saw a VSTi somewhere, a few days ago, that uses DNA data just like Soundfonts.

Gary

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uncoolbob



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GaryRea wrote:

I see. So, you're using DNA sequence data, then? One of my hobbies is genealogy and I'm the founder of a DNA project for my surname, so I deal with Y-DNA alleles all the time. Basically, just strings of numbers. I wonder what my DNA would sound like? Wink I saw a VSTi somewhere, a few days ago, that uses DNA data just like Soundfonts.

Gary


Hi,

No it's not DNA music (translating As, Cs, Gs and Ts into something audible), its actual evolving music. There is something analagous to DNA in the algorithm - some genetic material which gets reproduced/recombined/mutated. The genetic material codes for the music (in each 4 bar loop).

Sorry can't explain in more depth right now.

Haven't checked in on the site for a few days. I wonder if anything new and exciting has shown up?

cheers,
Bob.

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GaryRea



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

uncoolbob wrote:
GaryRea wrote:

I see. So, you're using DNA sequence data, then? One of my hobbies is genealogy and I'm the founder of a DNA project for my surname, so I deal with Y-DNA alleles all the time. Basically, just strings of numbers. I wonder what my DNA would sound like? Wink I saw a VSTi somewhere, a few days ago, that uses DNA data just like Soundfonts.

Gary


Hi,

No it's not DNA music (translating As, Cs, Gs and Ts into something audible), its actual evolving music. There is something analagous to DNA in the algorithm - some genetic material which gets reproduced/recombined/mutated. The genetic material codes for the music (in each 4 bar loop).

Sorry can't explain in more depth right now.

Haven't checked in on the site for a few days. I wonder if anything new and exciting has shown up?

cheers,
Bob.


Ah, so you're using the term "genetic" figuratively, then. By the way, Y-DNA sequences are usually strings of numbers, though the markers they represent are stated with names like DSY-389, for example. So, a Y-DNA sequence, at the 12-marker level, would be a string of 12 numbers, such as, 13, 23, 10, 12, 24, 29, 13, 30, 22, 10, 11, 10, or something like that. I suppose one could assign these any values they wanted to, such as note on-off messages, pitch values, velocity, etc.

I've got an RSS link on the forums, myself. I'm kind of new here and I'm a little disappointed to find that most of the discussion is about analog hardware instead of software synths.

Gary

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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I'm kind of new here and I'm a little disappointed to find that most of the discussion is about analog hardware instead of software synths.


Feel free to talk about software synths in the forums provided. We don't seem to get a lot of people who talk about them, truly, but that doesn't mean they aren't here.

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GaryRea



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

EdisonRex wrote:
Quote:
I'm kind of new here and I'm a little disappointed to find that most of the discussion is about analog hardware instead of software synths.


Feel free to talk about software synths in the forums provided. We don't seem to get a lot of people who talk about them, truly, but that doesn't mean they aren't here.


True. I've noticed most of the posts on the subject are rather aged. Of course, that's a function of the readership/audience, not the forums. I'll have to tell more VST enthusiasts about electro-music, then. Very Happy

Gary

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GaryRea wrote:
I'll have to tell more VST enthusiasts about electro-music, then. Very Happy


Yup, and tell with even more love about VST to electro-music-ians too Wink

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GaryRea



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
GaryRea wrote:
I'll have to tell more VST enthusiasts about electro-music, then. Very Happy


Yup, and tell with even more love about VST to electro-music-ians too Wink


Yes! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Streaming evolutionary music
Subject description: Evolectronica
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uncoolbob wrote:
It's loop based (is there any other feasible approach?)...


Yes. I use a technique that I call Boolean Sequencing to make streaming music. You need a music programming language such as ChucK or SuperCollider or CSound, or you could implement it in hardware.

Boolean Sequencing is based on logic expressions that evaluate the output of a binary counter. When the logic expressions evaluate to one, a note is played. Multiple expressions can be added up to produce a MIDI number for the frequency or other parameters of the note.

If you can set up a ChucK server linked to your page, I can provide you with free software that you can stream. In this way you could get started even without knowing how to program.

Cheers!

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uncoolbob



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: Streaming evolutionary music
Subject description: Evolectronica
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Hi Inventor,

Re: my question
I was thinking which approaches are suitable for evolutionary music, where you need to get feedback (e.g. the music is good/the music is bad) from the user in some reasonable amount of time (a few seconds). With loops you can do this, but with a whole song/piece/movement/symphony each evaluation would take many minutes.

Maybe a whole piece could be evolved if there was some intelligent way of automatically fast-forwarding to the bits which are new.

It sounds like you could build your boolean sequences with a genetic algorithm and evaluate (get the fitnesses) them with listener feedback (internet or just your headphones). Alternatively you can use genetic programming to evolve the ChucK (or whatever) code directly. One day I will try to give this a go!

I just had a listen to your Boolean_Trio and a very quick look at the source code. Is this a bit like bell ringing?

cheers,
Bob.

Inventor wrote:
uncoolbob wrote:
It's loop based (is there any other feasible approach?)...


Yes. I use a technique that I call Boolean Sequencing to make streaming music. You need a music programming language such as ChucK or SuperCollider or CSound, or you could implement it in hardware.

Boolean Sequencing is based on logic expressions that evaluate the output of a binary counter. When the logic expressions evaluate to one, a note is played. Multiple expressions can be added up to produce a MIDI number for the frequency or other parameters of the note.

If you can set up a ChucK server linked to your page, I can provide you with free software that you can stream. In this way you could get started even without knowing how to program.

Cheers!

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uncoolbob



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

FWIW I got some useful advice a while ago on this forum (well, a different sub-forum to be precise) about programming a software synth. Don't give up on it!

EdisonRex wrote:
Quote:
I'm kind of new here and I'm a little disappointed to find that most of the discussion is about analog hardware instead of software synths.


Feel free to talk about software synths in the forums provided. We don't seem to get a lot of people who talk about them, truly, but that doesn't mean they aren't here.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, you could code up a genetic algorithm in which the logic matrix was the gene code ad then let it evolve under listener feedback.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GaryRea wrote:
EdisonRex wrote:
Quote:
I'm kind of new here and I'm a little disappointed to find that most of the discussion is about analog hardware instead of software synths.


Feel free to talk about software synths in the forums provided. We don't seem to get a lot of people who talk about them, truly, but that doesn't mean they aren't here.


True. I've noticed most of the posts on the subject are rather aged. Of course, that's a function of the readership/audience, not the forums. I'll have to tell more VST enthusiasts about electro-music, then. Very Happy

Gary


Gary- in case you haven't tried this site yet, kvraudio.com is one of the heavy sites for everything-VST. It's easy to spend a lot of time there.

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