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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
No Sound From Digital Noise..
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valis



Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Posts: 121
Location: Oregon, USA
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:16 pm    Post subject: No Sound From Digital Noise..
Subject description: The problem, I think, is understood now (NTE4006 vs. CD4006)
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Hello All,
As always, I appreciate you taking the time to help me on my building projects. I completed a Digital Noise but I can't get any sound out of it even with the gain on my mixer turned extremely high. The only symptoms I can describe which may help is that both of the LEDs are always solidly lit and that 4046 is getting extremely hot while operating. Any guesses? Your thoughts are appreciated..

Last edited by valis on Wed May 20, 2009 1:37 pm; edited 4 times in total
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi
both LEDs on means the 4006 is not stepping, assuming all is soldered in correctly, does it work when you plug in an external clock signal?

hot 4046, either a build error - solder bridge, etc OR from Ken's FAQ -

Q. Why does my 4015 get stinking hot? (4015 is just a randomly chosen 4000 series number - this applies to all 4000 series chips such as 4017, 4024, 4066 etc.)
A. It is probably a 74HCT4015, or some other 74xxx variant designed to run on 5 volts. You want CD4015 or MC14015. Note that Motorola includes "1" at the beginning of their part numbers. A MC4015 is a different device altogether and will also get stinking hot. If the salesman behind the counter tells you the 74xxx will work just as well, IGNORE HIM - he's a salesman, not a technician or engineer. There will be letters after the device number. "B" is the most common. these extra letters indicate whether the chip is buffered, and what package type it is. Make sure you get a DIP package and not an SMD package.


well, some things to check
let us know how you go
have fun Very Happy
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valis



Joined: Sep 16, 2008
Posts: 121
Location: Oregon, USA
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the reply. I probably made some error so it helps to have places to start looking for it/them. I forgot that Ken mentions the 4000 series chips in the FAQ and it turns out I do have a 74HCT4046 in there. I must of done something bad because I plugged the DN into my modular today and it was making some of my other modules act kind of screwy, which was a bit disconcerting. At first I was worried that perhaps my power connector had a short but that wasn't the case.

And no, using an external clock and CV source does not seem to do anything..

As you guessed, I'm a bit of a noob who's crossing over from the MFOS builds to CGS projects. I'm sure I did something dumb but I want to get better at these projects so I can start building some of Ken's really interesting modules..

Thanks for the advice and time! I'll keep troubleshooting..
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valis



Joined: Sep 16, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I was still having problems after replacing the 74HCT4046. I think the problem now is that I am using an NTE4006 instead of a CD4006. After sifting through the CGS yahoo group and checking my work a million times over I'm pretty sure this is why my DN still isn't working. Now it's time to find myself a CD4006

Thanks Andrew (as always) for your help. I should have caught these two build errors earlier but now I'll know better..

P.S. For the others out there, I'm going to upload this wiring diagram I found on the CGS yahoo list. It was originally made by user "kvltleader." I don't imagine anybody would take issue if I shared it here. The wiring looks correct but the LEDs are not shown..

Also make sure you connect the jumper which is on the pcb under the 4030..


Dnoise-Wiring-Check.jpg
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CGS Digital Noise Wiring Diagram
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Dnoise-Wiring-Check.jpg


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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Valis.

A couple of things - make sure you get a 4006B. Out of 4 RCA 4006AE ICs, only one worked in the DN. So go for a "B" suffix. A motorola MC14006BCP works fine too.

It's also worth wiring up a DPDT changeover toggle switch with the middle 2 pins connected to pins 6 and 7 of the CD4046 PLL. Connect a 1uF non-polar cap across one set of outer pins, and leave the other outer pair unconnected. You then get a range switch that will give you a "slow" mode that gives some interesting random pulses from DS1 and DS2.
With the 1uF switched in, the fastest rate is just above the slowest rate available with just the standard 10nF cap, giving an overlap in range.

If you can't get a 1uF non polar, go for something as big as you can, say, 680nF or 820nF, or a couple of 470nFs in parallel.

hope this helps, Smile

cheers,
Dave
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valis



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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Dave,
Thanks so much for the good info. I did not know about the differences in the CD4006s and would of probably ended up with the wrong chip once again. The info on the mod seems very useful and easy as well. I'm eager to finally hear this module once I get a hold of a CD4006B.

-David
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LetterBeacon



Joined: Mar 18, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It turns out the CD4006 chips that Banzai supply are in fact HEF4006 chips. This is what Yves says about CD4006 chips versus HEF4006 chips on his site:

Quote:
I have modified the schematic and PCB of this module because there has reports of  problems with the previous PCB when  using HEF4006 or MC14006 instead of the CD4006 for which the circuit was designed. As the matter of fact, the HEF4006 and the MC14006 both require very steep clock edges to work properly while the CD4006 can handle slopier edges.


Bearing that in mind, will the HEF4006 chip work in the digital noise circuit, or do I need to find a UK supplier of CD4006 chips?
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macumbista



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LetterBeacon wrote:
It turns out the CD4006 chips that Banzai supply are in fact HEF4006 chips...will the HEF4006 chip work in the digital noise circuit, or do I need to find a UK supplier of CD4006 chips?


Bump and ditto. I was about to get a couple 4006 chips from Banzai tomorrow....

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LetterBeacon



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I bought mine from eBay in the end.
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macumbista



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ken just wrote me that the HEFs at Banzai should be fine. I'll report back tomorrow night with confirmation.
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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Derek,

I'm on the hunt for 4006's too, but wanted to check that the HEF's work, did you get a chance to try it out yet?

Cheers,

Charlie

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macumbista



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just back from a trip, neighbors have my mail Wink I'll try to finish the build tomorrow and let you know.
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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks!

Very Happy

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macumbista



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Was traveling again, sorry for the delay. Yes, the HEF 4006 works fine, just as Ken said it would.

Current patch: using the different random gates to trigger two different, wide-panned Low Pass Gates with the same input signal. Nice stereo head-muckery!

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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks! I got some in the post so I'll check it out! They're TC4006, hopefully they'll work!
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LetterBeacon



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If they don't, I'm sure I've got some HEF4006 knocking around you can have.
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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool, thanks LetterBeacon - as ever though fixing other peoples broken **** takes priority, so I haven't actually got around to finishing it and testing it yet!
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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Finally got around to this today, and I can confirm that TC4006BP work too!

I added a 1M pot in series with the 4M7 from pin 12 of the 4046, I think it should be higher though, so I will try 2M2, and maybe even higher? (if I can find)

I also added a 1000NF (1uF) cap which can be switched in a la Dave Kendall's mod, but I might drop that down to 680NF, also buffered the VCO output and brought it out to a jack, and added a mixer for the speed control:

1 unattenuated CV
1 attenuated CV
1 knob fed from +Ve

Also, I'm sure Pink and White noise outputs are swapped on the board, Pink sounds White and vice-versa (I'm taking the one which sounds like it is filtered as being Pink, well that is coming out of the White output) Anyone else notice that?

Here is a picture of the prototype for testing all the additions, not particularly good-looking!

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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LetterBeacon



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It looks great!

I haven't noticed the outputs being swapped on mine, but now you've got me doubting myself! I'll have a check when I get home tonight.
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