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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
Sequential Switch and general sequencer confusion....
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Bodega



Joined: Nov 02, 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:33 pm    Post subject: Sequential Switch and general sequencer confusion.... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all!

I was going to make a project where I'd have an 8-step sequencer and each step would have a simple octave control, the design for which I've already picked out.

That leads me to believe that what I need is something that generates a cv, selects between 8 send/returns and then routes that to one master output. In other words, a fairly standard sequencer (from what I understand a sequencer to be, anyways).

From a look at the Sequential Switch page it appears that it can choose between 8 inputs but not 8 outputs. Am I right in thinking the Switch is not what I need, or is there a way to set it up that would work in my setup?

thanks lots!
Matthew
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Bodega



Joined: Nov 02, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nobody?

I guess it is a bit of a newbieish question....
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bodega wrote:
Nobody?

I guess it is a bit of a newbieish question....


Maybe, but I just was not sure what you meant ... a sequencer basically would be an n-> 1 switch where some trickery cycles through the n switch postions, sequentuially usually, but not necessarily.

When the switch would be an analog switch it would not matter what side to label as input(s) or output(s) (so it could be seen as either 1->n or n->1).

Do you have a link to some circuit you have in mind?

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The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Bodega,

Not sure if this is helpful, but I built a sequencer using the CGS 07 boards.

This has the individual pulse outputs for each step going to a 1 pole 8 way rotary switch, meaning you can send each steps pulse to one of 8 outputs.

If you put a pot wired as a voltage divider before each switch, you could change the voltage going to each switch (only lower though I suppose).

I guess it would be easy to apply each of these 8 outputs to 'thingamajig (octave thing)', and then sum them all together after 'thingamajig (octave thing)'.

Not sure if this is what you had in mind though!

Charlie
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Bodega



Joined: Nov 02, 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the replies, guys.

I'd like to use this circuit to adjust the pitch of each of the 8 steps:

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-251404.html&highlight=#251404

So it would be N>1 (i.e. the switch cycles through the 8 steps, which goes to a single out)

Quote:
When the switch would be an analog switch it would not matter what side to label as input(s) or output(s) (so it could be seen as either 1->n or n->1).


What's confusing me is this, from the CGS site:

Quote:
It can route one of eight signals to its output, but not the other way around.


Edit: I'm guessing I would put my 8 octave switches (as in the link above) in the 8 inputs in the lower right of this pic?

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Maybe if I had it in front of me it would all make sense. Embarassed

Last edited by Bodega on Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i believe you make 8 simple voltage dividers: 8 pots, ground all the left lugs, positive voltage to all the right lugs, each wiper going to on of the 8 inputs. so as the sequential switch cycles thru the 8 inputs, it will output whatever voltage it sees from each pot/divider, in sequence.

b

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Bodega



Joined: Nov 02, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right. I just corrected my previous post.

Obviously I'd need 8 of the octave switches and not just one.

So it looks like the SS would indeed work for what I need.

And just for the record - I know controlling a sequencer's output with just octave switches is a little boring, but I'm doing this for an art installation and I want something maximally simple.
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Bodega



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now that I've got it in front of me, I'm wondering:

1) what are the 4 holes that are just in front of the power connector, by where -0.6v is written? They look like posts for heat sinks, but I'm sure that's not why they're there. There doesn't seem to be anything in the parts list that corresponds with those kind of holes.

2) Are the arrows after the LEDs just to REALLY make sure you know which direction they are going, or do they indicate something else?

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

3) Finally, just to save me a trip around town: the 10n cap by the power connector - can that be substituted with another value? I don't happen to have any 10n/.01uF caps on hand. I see that it's in the path of the Reset In, but I'm not sure how crucial that value is.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated...
Matthew
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bodega wrote:


1) what are the 4 holes that are just in front of the power connector, by where -0.6v is written? They look like posts for heat sinks, but I'm sure that's not why they're there. There doesn't seem to be anything in the parts list that corresponds with those kind of holes.

2) Are the arrows after the LEDs just to REALLY make sure you know which direction they are going, or do they indicate something else?


3) Finally, just to save me a trip around town: the 10n cap by the power connector - can that be substituted with another value? I don't happen to have any 10n/.01uF caps on hand. I see that it's in the path of the Reset In, but I'm not sure how crucial that value is.



1. I asked Ken about this once, the holes and all the copper are for heat dissipation, same reason there are two 2k2 resistors in parallel. This section of the PCB is getting -0.6V from -15V so there is some heat generated.

2. not sure, the leds are essential for the outputs to work. A regular diode would be okay too if you don't like blinkenlights. Though the SeqSwitch has a great light show, think Kit on dexies.

3. I am sure you could get away with different value, tho as close as possible, say 12n. You could also put two caps in parallel or in series to get the required value. If it doesn't work, you will have to do manual reset (press the button) until the next shopping trip
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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
if you don't like blinkenlights.


Haha, good one Laughing I pity the foo who don't like blinkenlights

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Bodega



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh, no diodes for me - I do like the blinknenlights!

Laughing
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Bodega



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi again, collective EM group mind,

Finally decided I'd better get this thing working property. It cycles fine, and switches direction fine, but I can't seem to get it to reset. So it goes 1-8 or 8-1 but I can't seem to dial up shorter sequences. It seems that P1-8 all put out a voltage in the +5v neighbourhood.

If I connect, say, P4 directly to RST OR RSS, that should reset every cycle on the 4th step, right? Mine doesn't seem to do that.

Incidentally, I've been assuming that the RST is looking for a +5v Gate or Trigger, and the vertical line on the schem above between RSE and +15v means a momentary switch. If either of those aren't the case, it might explain some stuff.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! I've been looking at this thing for months without having the wherewithal to get it working....

Matthew
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Hi again, collective EM group mind,

<Deep> Hello Matthew </Deep>

Quote:

So it goes 1-8 or 8-1 but I can't seem to dial up shorter sequences. It seems that P1-8 all put out a voltage in the +5v neighbourhood.


The ouput voltages sound about right.

Quote:

If I connect, say, P4 directly to RST OR RSS, that should reset every cycle on the 4th step, right? Mine doesn't seem to do that.


The RSS input is used when the gate outputs are wired to a rotary switch so the sequence length can be set. Though it should still work fine if you are using the RST input, thats how mine is set up, no rotary switch, just plug in a patch-cord from one of the gate outs to the RST input.
Ken's description of this module notes the reset behaviour is a bit unusual. Does the up/dwn control work to change the pattern between 1-8? I love using this module to get patterns like - 1234343456787876787678, so the LEDs are stuttering back'n'forth.

Quote:
Incidentally, I've been assuming that the RST is looking for a +5v Gate or Trigger, and the vertical line on the schem above between RSE and +15v means a momentary switch. If either of those aren't the case, it might explain some stuff.


These assumptions are correct. Any signal over about 2V should work. The momentary switch should be a NO (normally open) type. Obvious I know, but I once bought a bunch of momentary switches and found the shop had dumped NO and NC types into the same tray. The only way to tell the difference was to test them.
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Bodega



Joined: Nov 02, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Andrew!

So in terms of which voltages go where in your build:

RST - 0v, or the +5v of an individual gate output if it's plugged in
RSS - not connected to anything
RSE - always connected to +15v, except when broken by the momentary switch

Is that right?

When I hardwire RSE to 15V, one of the Up/Down switch's positions locks the sequencer in first position until I flip the switch again. That gives me the impression that it should be an Normally-closed type. Unless, of course, something else is wrong in my build....
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bodega wrote:

RSE - always connected to +15v, except when broken by the momentary switch

Is that right?


opposite - RSE connects to +15V only when you press the switch. NO means the switch is open (ie - no connection) until you press it

Bodega wrote:

When I hardwire RSE to 15V, one of the Up/Down switch's positions locks the sequencer in first position until I flip the switch again. That gives me the impression that it should be an Normally-closed type. Unless, of course, something else is wrong in my build....


Depending upon whether the direction is up or down, the reset point will be #1 or #8. Thats why if you have the reset hardwired on (RSE to +15V), the sequence will stay on #1 until you change the direction with the up/down switch. Then the reset point will be changed to #8, so the sequencer will scurry over there.

sounds like you are almost there Smile
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Bodega



Joined: Nov 02, 2008
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Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It does! Smile

I'll give it another look tomorrow and see if I can't bridge the gap between it making sense and it making the sounds I want it to make.
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