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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Acxel II
Are you getting one?
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DrJustice



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Are you getting one? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mine is on order cheesy

Now for the wait - if all goes to plan it's delivery in November.

DJ
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seraph
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shocked

wow!

Are,

that's some news

beer banana wave respect

it makes me thinking

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DrJustice



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for sharing the enthusiasm Seraph Very Happy beer

You know you want one Razz

DJ
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seraph
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DrJustice wrote:
Thanks for sharing the enthusiasm Seraph Very Happy beer

You know you want one Razz

DJ
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what Question you, mindreader Wink

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I f i does not host the plastic/metalic Asahi Kasei Microdevices sound i probably will buy one to.
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DrJustice



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
I f i does not host the plastic/metalic Asahi Kasei Microdevices sound i probably will buy one to.

Do you mean that you don't like AKM CODECs? Surely they're very good... I don't know which converter make or model is used in the Acxel though.

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DrJustice wrote:
TekniK wrote:
I f i does not host the plastic/metalic Asahi Kasei Microdevices sound i probably will buy one to.

Do you mean that you don't like AKM CODECs? Surely they're very good... DJ
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Yes ,as good as the sound that comes out of your PC soundcard..

Burr Brown sounds much 'analog','warmer'
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DrJustice



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
DrJustice wrote:
TekniK wrote:
I f i does not host the plastic/metalic Asahi Kasei Microdevices sound i probably will buy one to.

Do you mean that you don't like AKM CODECs? Surely they're very good... DJ
--


Yes ,as good as the sound that comes out of your PC soundcard..

Burr Brown sounds much 'analog','warmer'

That's a very sweeping statement. AKM makes CODECs for hi-fi and professional audio, just like Burr Brown (who is now TI), Crystal (who is now Cirrus), Analog Devices and others. They're just as good as the others good ones. I have two soundcards here with reasonable AKM converters that have very good sound (M-Audio). All manufacturers have cheaper CODECs too, but even they sound better than high end stuff of a few years ago. There's nothing wrong with AKM at all - I just dropped by their site and they look to be in good shape (high performance AKM CODECs here).

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have RME soundcards and the sound sucks same like your M-audio mate.

we don't need a 'hi-end' or hi-fi sound,we need a pleasant sound. like that comes out of a TC2290,synclavier,roland DM-80 or even an old eventide H3000,ensonic paris,or perhaps the sound of the old acxel I ...,and with an high headroom able input preferable.

its all about the filtering not abouth the codec.

BTW,there is no single 'modern' audio card that can handle acoustic or high dynamic electronic sound sources without compressor or its clipping immediately,and when you add compression you lose dynamic of you source that turns into sound without any 'balls',only a handfull old and very pro units can handle it without.

those new compact convertors are just made with one goal: not quality but to save as much cost possible for gear manufacturers.

In the past they where forced ofcource to R&D on additional filtering but this gave a result in a more musical sound that is sadly completely disapeared in all gear since mid 90ties
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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK,
you know where to ask for details Wink

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
TekniK,
you know where to ask for details Wink


i did already wrote a mod in PM concerning this there very early when forum was up,he agreed with me and did understand completely what i did mean as he was an synclavier user (btw),so..

am just afraid that i will get the same sound quality like whats comming out of my 'hi-q AKM hosted RME card' running morphine on my pc

http://www.image-line.com/documents/morphine.html

not the same possibilities as the acxel but the difference is 7000$..
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seraph
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:

http://www.image-line.com/documents/morphine.html

not the same possibilities as the acxel but the difference is 7000$..


I'll check it out Wink

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DrJustice



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
...
http://www.image-line.com/documents/morphine.html

not the same possibilities as the acxel but the difference is 7000$..

Well, the price difference is more like $1800 (PCI card version of Acxel) and then you do get the hardware. Not that you can really compare the two... Even the stand alone Rack versions can be had from $2950, and then you get not only the synth and audio hardware, but a host system as well. In my book the Acxel is quite attractively priced.

DJ
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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
TekniK wrote:

http://www.image-line.com/documents/morphine.html


I'll check it out Wink


well...I'm not impressed. it looks very similar to my
http://www.camelaudio.com/Alchemy.php
Wink
and as far as I understand the way both handle the retuning of partials is very similar and unsatisfactory Exclamation

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
seraph wrote:
TekniK wrote:

http://www.image-line.com/documents/morphine.html


I'll check it out Wink


well...I'm not impressed. it looks very similar to my
http://www.camelaudio.com/Alchemy.php
Wink
and as far as I understand the way both handle the retuning of partials is very similar and unsatisfactory Exclamation


The camelaudio version is not so good imo.

but...,i wander what u expect from the acxel then controlwise speaking

it works +/- the same way, u should try not to touch the partials but experiment with the envelope curves for example.

indeep editing on the acxel machine will also (could be) boring for certain persons ,take count of that,thats why they come with the library etc options !
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seraph
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:

but...,i wander what u expect from the acxel then controlwise speaking

I hope to be able to edit the relationship/ratio between the fundamental frequency and upper partials of a sound.
Example: instead of having ratios 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1 etc.be able to shift those ratios to something like 1:1, 2.1:1, 3.2:1, 4.3:1 etc
you may ask why. read this:
Quote:
William Sethares (2004) wrote that just intonation and the western equal tempered scale derive from the harmonic spectra/timbre of most western instruments. Similarly the specific inharmonic timbre of Thai metallophones would produce the seven-tone near-equal temperament they do indeed employ. The five-note sometimes near-equal tempered slendro scale provides the most consonance in the combination of the inharmonic spectra of Balinese metallophones with harmonic instruments such as the stringed rebab.

arrow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbre

My main musical interest is music outside of 12 tone equal temperament (the usual Western tuning system) and I would like to investigate the relationships between timbre and tuning.

see also:
arrow http://eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu/~sethares/ttss.html

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:

I hope to be able to edit the relationship/ratio between the fundamental frequency and upper partials of a sound.
Example: instead of having ratios 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1 etc.be able to shift those ratios to something like 1:1, 2.1:1, 3.2:1, 4.3:1 etc
you may ask why. read this:
Quote:
William Sethares (2004) wrote that just intonation and the western equal tempered scale derive from the harmonic spectra/timbre of most western instruments. Similarly the specific inharmonic timbre of Thai metallophones would produce the seven-tone near-equal temperament they do indeed employ. The five-note sometimes near-equal tempered slendro scale provides the most consonance in the combination of the inharmonic spectra of Balinese metallophones with harmonic instruments such as the stringed rebab.

arrow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbre

My main musical interest is music outside of 12 tone equal temperament (the usual Western tuning system) and I would like to investigate the relationships between timbre and tuning.

see also:
arrow http://eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu/~sethares/ttss.html



Absolutely brilliant! banana banana banana banana

Go! Go!

Shit... I want one too.. bad... oh.. it hurts in my **censored**

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pguilmette



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:26 pm    Post subject: Getting one Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,
First of all thanks to DJ for ordering an Acxel2, wishing you a lot of creative fun. wave

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pguilmette



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:56 pm    Post subject: Temperament: Global & upper harmonics Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:

I hope to be able to edit the relationship/ratio between the fundamental frequency and upper partials of a sound.
Example: instead of having ratios 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1 etc.be able to shift those ratios to something like 1:1, 2.1:1, 3.2:1, 4.3:1 etc

My main musical interest is music outside of 12 tone equal temperament (the usual Western tuning system) and I would like to investigate the relationships between timbre and tuning.

Hi Seraph
When you look at the acxel2 documentation you see no direct reference to partials. The reason is that on raw analysis results it is too much information to manage and control and if you go down into the continuous spectra you have no simple way to access the significant elements.
This is why in the acxel2 (and the original too) the structure is oriented on the synthesis machine with oscillators having each amplitudes and frequencies evolving in time.
To express the amplitude - frequency information, you get 2 complementary representations:
4 Spectra:
Amplitude - giving the maximum amplitude and range of variation of envelope of each oscillator.
Frequency Center (Integer) - giving the base relative frequency of each oscillator, integer part.
Frequency Center (decimal) - giving the base relative frequency of each oscillator, decimal part.
Frequency Variation - giving the range of variation of envelope for each oscillator.
2 Envelopes
Amplitude: relative variation of amplitude within the defined range (spectrum) for each oscillator.
Frequency: relative variation of amplitude within the defined range (spectra Center & variation) for each oscillator.

If you want simply to control the frequency of a named oscillator (each representing an harmonic) you will change the corresponding vertical line in the frequency center spectrum, to change its center frequency.

This change is independent to each oscillator

You can make change in the timbre, in a STATIC manner. OR decide to assign a DYNAMIC control on this change (eg: MIDI).
Each spectrum and envelope has its double counterpart, corresponding to the specified control (in real time of course).

Then you can decide the way you want to define frequency relationship between the oscillators (harmonics in resynthesis), the spectrum frequency center correspond to harmonic number of each cell (Integer and decimal part of harmonic number). In this domain the frequency are relative to the note played.

BTW the operation that are accessible to frequency elements (harmonics) can be expressed to the whole Pitch and the temperament being changed.

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pguilmette



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:28 pm    Post subject: DAC and ADC Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For information
The converters currently used within the Acxel2 are TI/BurrBrown stuff.
FOr other models/extensions we evaluated Analog device ADAU Codecs

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks Pierre
I'm afraid sooner or later I'll have to get one too Shocked Wink Very Happy

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: DAC and ADC Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

pguilmette wrote:
For information
The converters currently used within the Acxel2 are TI/BurrBrown stuff.
FOr other models/extensions we evaluated Analog device ADAU Codecs
wave
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pguilmette



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Frequency & other parameters Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Then you can decide the way you want to define frequency relationship between the oscillators (harmonics in resynthesis), the spectrum frequency center correspond to harmonic number of each cell (Integer and decimal part of harmonic number). In this domain the frequency are relative to the note played.


Of course what I said about the frequency domain is also accessible for Oscillators - Amplitudes, Phases, Filter and Waveform. Using Spectra / Envelope combinations on these parameters.

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xjscott



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

seraph wrote:
TekniK wrote:

but...,i wander what u expect from the acxel then controlwise speaking

I hope to be able to edit the relationship/ratio between the fundamental frequency and upper partials of a sound.
Example: instead of having ratios 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, 4:1 etc.be able to shift those ratios to something like 1:1, 2.1:1, 3.2:1, 4.3:1 etc


Carlo, you can do that with Alchemy and you can even shift the partials around in real time.
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pguilmette



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:54 pm    Post subject: Capabilities Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On the Acxel2 everything is in real time indeed.
If you wish to control 1000 frequency elements in real time this will not limit the control on phases, amplitudes, filtering, waveforms, elements modulations, and also apply dependencies between those elements (eg: amplitude vs frequencies - grouped within a slope to process harmonic filtering-resonnances), links between the elements, control from external signals, etc..
And Real time resynthesis, in other words to analyse-regenerate-modify sounds in real time.
And emulate other synthesis modes or combine them.

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