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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » MIDI Controllers and Interfaces
Hardware Midi Program Change Controller
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rodhart



Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 18
Location: Brighton UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:36 pm    Post subject: Hardware Midi Program Change Controller Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi!

I've been looking for a Midi Program Change controller for years. I used to have a Yamaha MCS-02 that sent most Midi commands and there was another box around in the 80's that was like a small numeric keypad.

I'm using a Nord Lead 2x and am fed up with scrolling through so many patches when playing live. A direct entry keypad would do the job....can't see why it's so hard to find one these days.

Any help greatly appreciated

Thanks

Rod
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grantb3



Joined: Jul 31, 2009
Posts: 29
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

http://www.musictechnologiesgroup.com

Last edited by grantb3 on Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:31 am; edited 5 times in total
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roooareee



Joined: Nov 04, 2005
Posts: 12
Location: bray - ireland

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How about this?
http://www.ees-musik.de/html_gb/produkte_procon_gb.html
Thomann used to sell them, fairly pricey they are too, ~€250 if memory serves, but seems like the kind of thing your're looking for.
Other than that, a MIDI foot controller? I have a Yamaha MFC10, and it works really well, all the program changes/bank changes you could want, plus up to 5 expression pedals.
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xjscott



Joined: Apr 25, 2007
Posts: 232
Location: Appalachia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

While we are on this topic, I want to throw in that most MIDI controller keyboards have this function. However, quite amazingly, some of them, such as the Novation ReMOTE instruments, don't work properly as regards to bank messages. The ReMOTEs send a MSB/LSB pair and the MSB is always 0, you can't change it, and you can't vary the MSB only for instruments that like to have LSB always be 0. These are also implemented as two functions on one knob and to switch functions you have to go click click click then turn. The current bank message needs to be sent WITH the current program change, not as some completely separate thing that is chosen using a different selected mode every darn time.

Obviously there are several protocols for program changes! All of us that have more than one instrument know this.

Update: Ok, yes, the config panel mockup shown at the company that was mentioned correctly handles most of the options, including not sending lsb/msb, sending fixed values, or having it be selectable. Only missing are the real oddball ones, like classic Yamaha bank change messages. And a knob, and a merge input, but that's beyond the scope of what they are offering there.

PS: With the Novation ReMOTE trouble, the workaround for those who find it doesn't work with their synth is to ignore the built in data-select knob function. Instead, individual button controllers can be set to send a fixed program bank change event either msb or lsb, and knobs can send a variable CC0 or CC32 event.
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grantb3



Joined: Jul 31, 2009
Posts: 29
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

xjscott wrote:

Update: Ok, yes, the config panel mockup shown at the company that was mentioned correctly handles most of the options, including not sending lsb/msb, sending fixed values, or having it be selectable. Only missing are the real oddball ones, like classic Yamaha bank change messages. And a knob, and a merge input, but that's beyond the scope of what they are offering there.


That would be me Very Happy . That thread has been moved elsewhere in their forum, but in any event I am entertaining ideas regarding that device. I know that some modules and synths use naming like "Bank A" or patch numbers like "500" and I would like to account for that somehow. I think probably the best way is to allow the user to customize what the data entry format is (maybe pick it from a list in a setup menu?).

Loosely related is a mode where the device is used for live band or DJ performance and "Presets" (patch-per-MIDI-channel) are loaded ahead of time that are moved through during performance using up and down keys (see http://www.genovation.com/temp/MidiPatcher.jpg ) or randomly by punching in a number. Now that means the user must prearrange the order somehow, probably on a PC. Which brings me to the situation where people probably already have some patch name/number (or song or tempo or ...) data stored on their PC somewhere, such as MIDINameDocument (.midinam) format. It would be easiest maybe to allow someone to import the patch list or song list into a program that then lets the user drags the names or songs over. Anyway just an idea for now and I'm not sure what direction to take it in. The MIDI Patch Changer product concept actually has a pretty decent CPU in it, so despite the limited keypad and LCD it would be capable of storing and recalling quite a bit of data...

http://www.genovation.com/midipatch.htm

Last edited by grantb3 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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miketheman



Joined: Oct 12, 2009
Posts: 56
Location: Gothenburg, sweden

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:07 am    Post subject: Re: Hardware Midi Program Change Controller Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rodhart wrote:
Hi!

I've been looking for a Midi Program Change controller for years. I used to have a Yamaha MCS-02 that sent most Midi commands and there was another box around in the 80's that was like a small numeric keypad.

I'm using a Nord Lead 2x and am fed up with scrolling through so many patches when playing live. A direct entry keypad would do the job....can't see why it's so hard to find one these days.

Any help greatly appreciated

Thanks

Rod


Something like this?

http://www.prostage.eu/en/products/adaptors/xhc.html

/Mike
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
Posts: 4529
Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
Audio files: 123
G2 patch files: 12

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Hardware Midi Program Change Controller Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rodhart wrote:
...I'm using a Nord Lead 2x and am fed up with scrolling through so many patches when playing live. A direct entry keypad would do the job....can't see why it's so hard to find one these days. ...
Sorry I didn't find this thread earlier.
Scrolling Programs isn't easy without any organising the gig. You are using a NordLead2X, which is specially designed to do the job... by using Performances! There are RAM Performance Banks which can be loaded by the computer into the synth. First you fill up the Bank with the sounds you need. Let's assume you need 4 different sounds in the song, which takes a complete Performance, saved with only the first Slot active. To use the second sound just switch to Slot B, which is loaded with the second sound and so on. Do you need more than 4 sounds, switch to the next Performance or, and this is what I think a better way, add a special RAM Program Bank which is connected to the last Slot (D) and can be scrolled to the next Program. By less pushes on the buttons you have about 400 sounds under 1 finger and a 396 extra under two fingers.
Do you really need more than that?
What you have to construct is a Performance Bank and 4 Program Banks on the computer and a small paper which tells you what Performance is which song/composition or what ever. And you have to be able to use these files as 'upload all'.

The NordLead is designed to do this, only it isn't described in the Manual...

Wout
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