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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » fonik's place
Gate Control Expansion Board for LPG 292 (Thomas White PCB)
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3759
Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: Gate Control Expansion Board for LPG 292 (Thomas White PCB)
Subject description: all boards are spoken for
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the prototype is tested now and it works fine. you could mount it piggyback style on your TH LPG 292c PCB, even the mode switch pads are in the correct position, so one could use long pins instead of headers/cables to connect the boards.
however, i brought the actual switch terminals of the IC to pads, so this board could be used as gate controlled 3-pol on-off-on switch for other projects (signals from -7V to + 7V).
switching audio can always be a problem, i believe. so it is here: you might experience little pops when switching audio, depending on the signals you are switching. you will have experienced this with professional modules, too.

Building Documentation:
LPG292c Expansion

EDIT: rev2/2-nov-09 - change in wiring diagram page2 (MTA-100 connector)


EDIT 22 SEP 09:
i will write up some building docs soon, boards should be available beginning of october.

EDIT 23 SEP 09:
the manufacturer scheduled the delivery of the boards on 7th of october. unfortunately i will then have to go on a business travel to the states, followed by a short vacation.
so i fear i will not be able to send out the boards before monday, 26th of october.
i am so sorry for that delay, however i hope you'll understand.

all PCBs are spoken for
however, you can still contact me if you are interested in the boards. i will have a waiting list, and i could re-order some boards from the PCB house.

anyways, i won't take any money until i get the boards from manufacturer, so your advance order is a reservation according to Recommendations for PCB sales on electro-music.com

PRICING:

PCB 7.-USD/5.-EUR

+ packaging & postage
deutschland: 2.-EUR
europe: 3.-EUR
worldwide: 1 PCB 4.-USD, more than 1 PCB 8.-USD[/b]


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old message:
hi all,

here is the preleminary schematic for the gate control expansion board, providing two gate inputs and two switches to set the mode of the LPG manually or by incoming gates (remote control).

the prototype PCB is already populated and will get tested thoroughly these days.

the board will be usable as 3-pol on-off-on switch for other projects, too.



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Last edited by fonik on Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:25 am; edited 8 times in total
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The Bad Producer



Joined: Mar 08, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That looks really cool Fonik, are you thinking of making boards for these?

Also is that a CA4053, or CD4053?

Charlie
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fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Bad Producer wrote:
That looks really cool Fonik, are you thinking of making boards for these?

Also is that a CA4053, or CD4053?

Charlie

sure. i will ask for interest in boards as soon as i completed the testing.

WTH is a CA4053? Laughing it certainly is a CD4053!

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a gate or trig pulse or does it need to be hold (wich is in practice completely useless) to change the state Matt?
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Funky40



Joined: Sep 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

switching the LPG needs two switches ? so one left ?
you were speaking fom gates to switch in the LPG thread.
As TeKnik said: me too hoping that a "trigger" is fine, and not has to be hold high.
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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the mode is controlled by gates, not by triggers. trigger control would need a lot more of logic and you would need to send a trigger for i.e. "lopass on" and another for "lopass off". complicated.
it is controlled by gates, just as the doepfer A-101-2, and i would not have thought this to be 'completely useless', because he sells the A-101-2 this way since 2004 at least. maybe i am wrong.

anyways, controlled by a devider one would have to select the next greater division, due to the 50% duty cycle of most dividers. controlled by a sequencer the dedicated gate bus would have to work in "merged"-mode. however, this all depends on what you wanted to do...

the circuitry works like one 3-pole on-off-on switch, all three poles are needed for the LPG modes.
for each gate input there is a switch to control the gates state manually. each gates state gets indicated by a LED also. i think it will become clearer as soon as i built the module.

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i have analog switches that need to be hold in my 100M and did have also in the 700 and never use them because they are very difficult to control if u want to switch someting fast in sync.

controlling by an lfo for example u can never get fast switching in sync.

with a trigger pulse to change the state is much more interesting,why?

because u can use simple triggers to on/off a modulation source,it can repplaces a vca in some sort,now u NEED to sacrifice an modulation source to control the switch that in turn will anable/disable another modulation source so thats completely useless.

u can also use it easy to transpose a sequence just by merging +v with the seq voltage out by triggering the switch easly on/of via your gate/trigger bus of your sequencer,but if the switch need a sustained gate this application sucks..

so for the LPG it could be an ok add-on but as an externall module i have doubth anyone will use it very offen.

if u made it with trigger i buy you 20 pcb's or maybe custom order with 4 or 8 switches on one pcb then i buy 10 Wink
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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
if u made it with trigger i buy you 20 pcb's or maybe custom order with 4 or 8 switches on one pcb then i buy 10 Wink

so what about triggerable 1-pole on-on switches? my seq switch is actually exactly that, when set to 2 steps length. with 3 steps length it would work as on-off-on (no signal applied to step 2) Very Happy for multiple poles one would have to put them in parallel, one SeqSwitch for each pole.
so actually you are asking for a board with multiple SeqSwitches?

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
TekniK wrote:
if u made it with trigger i buy you 20 pcb's or maybe custom order with 4 or 8 switches on one pcb then i buy 10 Wink

so what about triggerable 1-pole on-on switches? my seq switch is actually exactly that, when set to 2 steps length. with 3 steps length it would work as on-off-on (no signal applied to step 2) Very Happy for multiple poles one would have to put them in parallel, one SeqSwitch for each pole.
so actually you are asking for a board with multiple SeqSwitches?


yes on-off,on-on is fine but did u see how big and how much components the pcb's are just to have 1 single switch function then,not to talk abouth the costs of the components (expensive DG ic)

i need something to be able to crop behind a small frontpanel 22x4cm and frontpanels space must be full used,so i guess 6 switch functions could fit for sure(maybe Cool

immagine u have a set of 3 lfo's and 3 vco's ,u feedback all in and outs between them passing thru those switches,with the lfo pulse out u also controls them,i think u get weird shit..

hey,but don't let u be influenced by what i write here he Matt,just do what U did have in mind Wink
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i did integrate in the past in a custom sequencer something just with an solid state relais,u only then need a sustained 5v gate to switch,it works great relais is not cheap but no components needed ,don't even need an pcb Very Happy ,enoying is at audio speed the relais is getting audible nervous lol
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
so actually you are asking for a board with multiple SeqSwitches?



4 on-off switches, toggled by triggers,
able to run on audiospeed. ( this is important ! )
( yup, should be somewhat compact if ever possible )
that is what i would need.
( i don't care if i need one switch for 0.50$ or 4 switches for 4$, it's still very cheap )



concerning the LPG:
it needs 4switches when the LPG needs 3.
Why ?
Lets' say it like this: asssoon that you switch LPG modes, the Idea might appear to switch some more in the same time. Cool
just think to your switched filter project for example Wink
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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
hey,but don't let u be influenced by what i write here he Matt,just do what U did have in mind Wink

why not getting influenced AND doing what i have in mind? Laughing
i mean you're coming up with some good ideas, and the discussion and exchange of ideas will lead to a new and perhaps useful project!? that's what a forum is for, i think.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
concerning the LPG:
it needs 4switches when the LPG needs 3.
Why ?

the LPG needs an 3-pole on-off-on, which my expansion board will provide. it is actually 3 on-off-on switches in synchronicity.

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fonik wrote:
TekniK wrote:
hey,but don't let u be influenced by what i write here he Matt,just do what U did have in mind Wink

why not getting influenced AND doing what i have in mind? Laughing
i mean you're coming up with some good ideas, and the discussion and exchange of ideas will lead to a new and perhaps useful project!? that's what a forum is for, i think.


Yes,but its not with an intension,and i also don't want its percieved like that to force you.

Its rather out of own experience (like i told ,i have switches in my vintage modular) to point out they r not so usefull or would better describe it as not so very handy to use as an separate module if u need a sustained control signal,but that could be different for somebody else ofcource.
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DGTom



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Trigger Toggles would be cool, but not so much for the LPG mode switch I feel.

I'm really excited Fonik is putting this board together & I will surely buy a few extra (in addition to 1 each for my 4 TW292c boards) to experiment with as stand alone.

The way the doepfer works is very practical / usefull. By multiplexing a note-on gate (152 in my case) you have the ablity to change the nature of sounds timbre, quite radically, from note to note.

Having to use triggers would not be so usefull, would tie up some extra sequencer(s) and/or require additional patching / processing. As a standalone module triggers would be good.
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fonik



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i put the whole module together last night. it is working quite nice. a little video will follow later to demonstrate the functionality of the push buttons and gate inputs.
and arrgh... i recognized a mistake in the truthtable which is on my frontpanel now: i mixed up gate and lopass (!)

as you can see there is a pushbutton with LED and a gate input for each gate. the pushbutton overwrites the gate input.
this way one could i.e. manually set Gate A to high (using the pushbutton) and remote control gate B with a gate signal. without removing the patchcord one could manually set gate B then, overwriting the gate input. i think this much more versatile than the doepfer solution (needs more panel space, though).

here are two pics:

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TekniK



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

DGTom wrote:
Trigger Toggles would be cool, but not so much for the LPG mode switch I feel.


To be clear,not only trigger signals,but any single pulse or gate i did mean,that way u can use anything to switch ofcource.

as for the gate with hold function ,did never tryed with an VC adsr as controller,could by cool with a VC into the sustain..

nice front fonik
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

looks nice, and a nice little PCB
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fonik



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so here is a short little vid demonstrating the functionality of the gates and pushbuttons. i aplogize for the bad sound quality, but u had to put the headphones onto the camcorder Shocked
hopefully i will be ablt to do a better version these days. however, you get the idea, i guess:


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DGTom



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Be interesting to hear some full bandwidth samples. From what I can hear it sounds very smooth! Module & PCB look great Very Happy
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fonik



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it is just a short sample. single CD3046 VCO square wave into LPG, controlled by the klee2 sequencer.

LPG292 01 by fonitronik

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gwaidan



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That sounds fantastic!!!
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adambee7



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that sounds the mutts nuts matthias. Very Happy Very Happy
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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and now a short vid with better sound quality (same patch as mp3 above):


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adambee7



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yep! that's made my mind up. I'll def have 2. I've built four lpgs so two will have this I think. Very Happy Very Happy
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