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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Ken Stone designs - CGS
VCS wiring
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j.dilisio



Joined: May 19, 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:53 pm    Post subject:  VCS wiring
Subject description: all laid out..
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I'm having trouble with the VCS wiring so here is a list of the connection points labeled on the board along with their front panel connections. Please help me complete the list..

ac out - ac out jack
out - out jack
trig in - trigger in jack
cy sw - cycle switch
end - end out jack
rrw - ?
frw - ?
exp - exp cv jack
rise cv - rise cv jack
both cv - both cv jack
pr2 - ?
pr1 - ?
bo - ?
in - input jack
swf -fall switch
swr - rise switch
rw - ?
rccw - ?
swr - rise switch
rcw - ?
fcw - ?
swf - fall switch
fccw - ?
fw - ?
fcv - fall cv jack
pout - ?
pccw - ?
pcw - ?

I figure w, cw ,ccw are code for pot connections, I'm just not sure which ones.
Also, the parts list calls for 5 pots total but there are only 4 on the front panel. What's the extra 50k for?
Thanks.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wiper, ClockWise, Counter-ClockWise

It's the same mmnemmonics I used on the MPS. Laughing

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j.dilisio



Joined: May 19, 2009
Posts: 186
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks.
So from the back, legs up, the order is CCW - W - CW?

ac out - ac out jack
out - out jack
trig in - trigger in jack
cy sw - cycle switch
end - end out jack
rrw - ? <---- CV pot wipers? what about the other connections?
frw - ?
exp - exp cv jack
rise cv - rise cv jack
both cv - both cv jack
pr2 - ?
pr1 - ?
bo - ?
in - input jack
swf -fall switch
swr - rise switch
rw - rise pot wiper
rccw - rise pot counter-clockwise
swr - rise switch
rcw - rise pot clockwise
fcw - fall pot clockwise
swf - fall switch
fccw - fall pot counter-clockwise
fw - fall pot wiper
fcv - fall cv jack
pout - ?
pccw - ?
pcw - ?

Getting there..

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Tasmanian Alkaloid



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,
rrw= rise rate wiper
frw= fall rate wiper
bo= bi-polar output jack
pout= processor output jack
pccw= processor pot ccw
pcw= processor pot cw

Ken explained on the yahoo group today that the Processor output is wired to the 'Both' Input. It has the ability to invert the signal.

The extra pot is for the processor section, but on the schematic, it's 20k-25k.
I went with 20k, but the processor section of mine's not yet working correctly so i can't confirm which is best,

-Matt
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j.dilisio



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, so there's some added features. I'll have to try wiring up the processor and see what happens.

The rate pots are the same as the vc rise and vc fall attenuators on the Bananalogue module, correct?

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Tasmanian Alkaloid



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

j.dilisio wrote:
Ok, so there's some added features. I'll have to try wiring up the processor and see what happens.

The rate pots are the same as the vc rise and vc fall attenuators on the Bananalogue module, correct?


I'm pretty sure they are
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j.dilisio



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks guys.
I've got it wired now but not working just yet.
The led is continuously on and no outputs.

I drew up a diagram of how I have it wired at the moment.
If someone could double check this for me I would appreciate it.
I've found that the wiring tends to be the issue most of the time when things aren't working.

I've left off the connection points that I'm not using for now.


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Tasmanian Alkaloid



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

j.dilisio wrote:
Thanks guys.
I've got it wired now but not working just yet.
The led is continuously on and no outputs.

I drew up a diagram of how I have it wired at the moment.
If someone could double check this for me I would appreciate it.
I've found that the wiring tends to be the issue most of the time when things aren't working.

I've left off the connection points that I'm not using for now.


Mine is wired up the same way, & works ok. But i wired in the 2 switches, & i wired up the processor section.
I think you need to also wire in the switches otherwise the circuit remains disconnected.
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j.dilisio



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I might be wrong here but from the schematic it looks like the switches are just connecting two points together rather than connecting either to a third point or ground,. so the circuit should function fine without them, just no exponential option or cycle switch.
Does that make sense or am I missing something?

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Tasmanian Alkaloid



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

j.dilisio wrote:
I might be wrong here but from the schematic it looks like the switches are just connecting two points together rather than connecting either to a third point or ground,. so the circuit should function fine without them, just no exponential option or cycle switch.
Does that make sense or am I missing something?


But if there's no switch, would there have to be a link instead?
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j.dilisio



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It looks like when swr or swf are connected the shape is non linear,. when disconnected they are linear. cysw just connects the end out to the trigger.

I'm planning on using a dual banana plug to connect end out and trigger for cycling so no switch necessary.


I've been poking around the circuit a bit and found that the Fall Rate pot sweeps the output jack from -3.32 to 14.25V

I can trace the input signal to pin 6 of the tl072 and the trigger pulse to pin 5 but the signal is intermittent at pin 7 and reads about 14.23V

Can someone with a working module check how theirs reads?
Maybe that will help me isolate the problem.

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Last edited by j.dilisio on Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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j.dilisio



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not reading anything on pin 2 of the TL072. I'm guessing there should be something there.

Now I'm blindly leaning towards the transistors being the problem.

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Tasmanian Alkaloid



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

j.dilisio wrote:
I'm not reading anything on pin 2 of the TL072. I'm guessing there should be something there.

Now I'm blindly leaning towards the transistors being the problem.


Did you catch Ken's post on the yahoo group in regards to changing the 220k resistor directly above the 4 transistors to 22k?

One other thing that almost got me was the 5v6 zener (i had soldered an IN4148 in there, but realised my error before finishing the module).

Is your LED still always on?

Unfortunately i don't have a scope, so i can't help you there.
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j.dilisio



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, I have the 22k resistor and the 5v6 zener in the correct places.
The LED is still always on.
No luck yet.

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j.dilisio



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Crap! I just noticed that the 2N3904's I got are described on the Mouser site as having a middle pin collector..

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=2N3904CTAvirtualkey51210000virtualkey512-2N3904CTA


It's weird that the data sheet doesn't agree. How do I know which pins are the base and emitter??

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andrewF



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

found this-
Pinout is ECB with the flat face of the transistor facing you. In other words, emitter is the same where it is supposed to be but B and C swap places.
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j.dilisio



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Andrew,.
I figured it out by testing with the multimeter.
It works great now!
I just wish I had planned for more of these in my system.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Howdy all,

I'm trying to lay out the panel of my 2 CGS75 PCBs to match the original Serge Dual Universal Slope Generator module (which I have used and love!).

I'm not too keen to give up independent VC scaling for the Rise and Fall, but I do want to squeeze as much into the panel as possible!

So, which pots would correspond to the (bipolar) VC pot on the original USG? The two 50K lin pots for RISE and FALL, or the two 10K log pots for the RISE RATE and FALL RATE?

If it's RISE/FALL, I'm assuming I can use a stereo pot in place this pair to get the original (panel-space saving) layout.

And if it's RISE RATE/FALL RATE, then a single 10K log pot will do the job, since it just acts a voltage divider.

Also, are the CV input pots bipolar, as the VC control on the original USG is? Or is that what the Processor input is for?

Thx+best!
Derek

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macumbista



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm... actually to duplicate the original DUSG, you'd have to wire it to use the processor input, install a 3-position switch to change between RISE/FALL/BOTH, skip the RISE and FALL pots and wire pins 3 & 5 of the TL074 directly to ground. Am I off-base here?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, CV input jack -> Processor. Processor -> Switch.

Then wire the switch like this: http://electro-music.com/forum/post-259833.html#259833

I think that should work?

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macumbista



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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ken sent me the original VCS schemo, and it is in fact switched like you show. However, he also said that I need to keep on of the RISE or FALL pots for the bipolar input CV. You can see the same block of stuff around the op amp, going from inverting to non-inverting, on the far left side of the schemo I attached.

But to do that, I would have to cut traces and rewire things to only use one of the input op amps, but connected to both pairs of transistors.

So I thought I could just fix both them to non-inverting instead, and use the Processor to do the work. zthee's post seems to indicate that works fine. Did you test that yet zthee?

The other idea was to go a bit crazier, use the Analog Logic CGS PCB and wire it up as a Makenoise Maths Wink

So now I have to decide if panel space is more important than some crazy functions I may or may not use...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

macumbista wrote:
Did you test that yet zthee?


I've never built a VCS.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Last night I wired up the first of 4 VCS. Gotta say very little is more satisfying than a module that works 100% from first power up. with only about 15 minutes to try it out, I have to say these will change my synthesizing life forever, just completely bonkers.

I will suggest to anybody, that they put on every option they can squeeze in. For the first time ever I feel sorry for serge owners, paying around $300 each for very scaled down versions of the circuit, I think these will pan out at around $75 each. I will likely have more of these than any other module by the end of the year. With only the most mundane tests of some of the functions, I have lifted the veil and seen a whole new world beyond. I cannot imagine anything could carry the wallop the VCS delivers. I am making myself crazy at work thinking about getting home to finish #2, and start on 3 and 4, and order 5,6,x,xx,xxx,xxxx.

AMAZING
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool!

I went the Makenoise Maths clone way myself and stuck an Analog Logic PCB in the middle of two VCS PCBs, used almost all the features of the VCS PCB except bipolar out and the cycle switch (can be done with patch cables), and I used one switch for the Lin/Exp for both Rise and Fall times. Analog Logic and some DC mixers provides Inverted, Offset, AND/NAND (peak), OR/NOR (trough) and Sum of the outputs of the two VCS units in the module.

Hopefully will finish this tomorrow and post pics.

I have some ideas how I will use mine, but I'm curious to hear other peoples VCS patching ideas.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, it's AAARRRRRGGGG time. I have two VCS boards assembled. One doesn't do anything, so let's set that one aside for the time being.

The other has voltage and pot control of the slopes, input also works, lin/exp switch is fine, I get slopes out, but the end-out and trigger arrangement do nothing. I hard wired it to cycle just to see if that works, and it also doesn't. And the LED stays on all the time.

I've gone over the transistors, and even checked to make sure that the BCE arrangement wasn't funny in that batch, also double checked wiring. Beyond that I'm not so knowledgeable.

I've built tons of Ken's stuff, this is the first time I've ever screwed something up. Suggestions for other possible checks to make are greatly appreciated!

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