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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Bugs
Is it normal? Sequencer Holding Notes
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paugui



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:55 am    Post subject: Is it normal? Sequencer Holding Notes Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I created a simple patch on my Nord Modular G2X to sequence other synths or Slots (unfortunately my Nord G2X isn't transmiting MIDI Out so at the moment the patch is only useful to control other Slots) and today I noticed a small problem with the patch.
If I put the ClockGen at 120 bpms, everything works as it should, but if I lower the rate to 70's bpms, it started to hold a note randomly.
The patch is fairly basic, just a ClockGen connected to control 4 different SeqNote modules which send individually their output to a NoteSend module.
Is this a typical bug or can it be that my unit has a serious problem?
Since I am going to take it back to the store for repairs due to the MIDI Out problem I was wondering if this is a problem too so that I can ask them to look at it too.


Best regards

Paugui
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This must be a problem in the patch itself, maybe there is a possibility that the same note is sent from two different sequencers?

Maybe you can post the patch so we can see.

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paugui



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is the patch I mentioned, I wasn't sure I had it on this computer.
When I use it with a high number of bpms, it runs just fine, but if I use it with a low number of bpms, it sometimes holds a note.

Is this normal?


PolySeq.pch2
 Description:
Poly Sequencer

Download
 Filename:  PolySeq.pch2
 Filesize:  2.55 KB
 Downloaded:  777 Time(s)


PolySeq.pch2
 Description:
Poly Seq

Download
 Filename:  PolySeq.pch2
 Filesize:  2.55 KB
 Downloaded:  756 Time(s)

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paugui



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry for the double posting of the file... I wasn't sure it was included already in the post...
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paugui



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was trying to understand the problem and by observing the patch that was being triggered, I noticed that the triggering was normal.
The problem I noticed is that the input on the effect section doesn't drop during the time the note is being hold, despite the output of the VA section of the patch stops to output.

Does anyone has this same problem?
The strange thing is that I am only noticing it while playing sequenced patches at low bpms...
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is a partial example so I'll have to guess a bit.

You have four sequencers running in parallel all outputting on the same MIDI channel, and you use it with internal MIDI to control another patch, right?

Is, for the patch you are controlling with the sequencers, the voice count set to four?

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paugui



Joined: Jun 28, 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The voice count is set higher than 4 and I am not using all the sequences running to the same slot at once.
I put 2 at once or just 1 and the holding was noticeable.

Yesterday I also got two major errors on the editor while using the synth and strangely the synth got frozen sometimes too, I tried to change the sound and while it did, I didn't the keyboard didn't indicate that - most buttons seemed not to refresh their displays...

Could this indicate a major problem with the synth?
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paugui



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was trying today to sequence some patches with my sequencer patch and the problem is getting weirder...

I still have all the original patches on my Nord G2X and using it to sequence patch 3.46 - Steel Pan, I usually get stuck notes, while on all others I've been trying, this problem doesn't seem to exist.
Also, on this patch, I can only get sound on the first 4 variations, on all the others I see that the output should be sending sound out but no sound is heard... Is this normal?

Another strange thing was that when I used the sequencer patch to sequence patch 3.47 - , an emulation of Nord Lead 3, I get the sequence played 2 or 3 times and then I had some time where strangely the notes weren't triggered. However, if I used patch 3.5 - MODLeadNL3 or 1.75 - Lead NL3, another NL3 emulations, I could get the sequence to play continuously as it should.

Could anyone test my patch and see if this problems are present too?


Thanks in advance,
Best regards

Paugui
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paugui



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just found out why the sequencer would only play at times on that NL3 emulation patch... it had the arpeggiator on, and when it is on, this seems to happen in all patches.

I was just wondering if the problem I'm having might be due to a corrupt patch.
Would that make the synth go a bit wild?
Is that I am only detecting that problem with that specific patch and I am finding that the patch isn't outputting sound when it should, so it leaves me wondering...
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paugui



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I uploaded the patch that I thought to be corrupted again to my G2X and found that the non playing variations were mute...

I used the synth for a while without any problems, but today problems appeared again...
I still have some hold notes once in a while and sometimes the synth freezes too and I can't change the active slot or the parameter pages to edit the synth.

About the holding problem, I made a small record where a sequence is being played and at the end of the demo, a note is hold.

Anyone has a guess why this is happening?


Thanks in advance, best regards

Paugui


Hold Problem Demo.mp3
 Description:
Small sequence where the hold problem appears - The sequence remains unchanged as well as all synth parameters during this mp3, and no note was triggered on the keyboard

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 Filename:  Hold Problem Demo.mp3
 Filesize:  307.35 KB
 Downloaded:  383 Time(s)

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varice



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I suspect that the stuck notes and other strange behavior of this sequencer patch are due to using the trigger mode output of the Sequencer module with the short clock pulse from the Clock Gen module as a gate signal for the MIDI Note Send module and the possibility that more than one sequencer can send the same MIDI note to the same slot or external synth at the same time. I don’t think these problems are caused by a G2 bug.

The Clock output is a very short pulse, probably too short to be used as a normal gate signal. This short pulse is passed through Sequencer modules when set to trigger mode. It causes the MIDI note module to have to send a MIDI note off immediately after a MIDI note on is sent. Patches in other slots and external synths may not respond well to this abnormally short note gate. I would suggest changing this patch to get a longer gate signal. A quick fix may be to just add a logic Pulse module before the MIDI Note Send module (or between the Clock and Sequencers) and adjust the time to “stretch” the pulse to a longer gate signal.

I also agree with what Jan mentioned. In my experience, sending the same MIDI note on value more than once at a time before a MIDI note off signal is sent for the first note on can cause strange behavior by the receiving synths. This could be considered to be an abnormal situation. For example, using a standard MIDI keyboard, you would not normally be able to send more than one of the same MIDI note on values at a time without sending a MIDI note off in between. Playing a note on the keyboard would send one MIDI note on, but before you could play the same note again, you would have to release the key which would cause a MIDI note off to be sent. But your patch can cause this abnormal situation if more than one sequencer is used to send notes to a single slot and/or external synth if more than one sequencer sends the same MIDI note value at the same time.

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Last edited by varice on Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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paugui



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your input varice.

Could someone just check my patch and see if a similar result to the one presented in Mp3 is heard on your units?

Cause I hope that if it is not a problem, they can put my G2X working again much faster.


Thanks in advance,

Paugui
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varice



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, your patch has the same problem when it runs on my OS 1.40 G2X. Stretching the trigger into a longer gate appears to fix the problem.
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Last edited by varice on Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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paugui



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you a lot varice.

I hope with that info they repair my keyboard gets repaired pretty soon.


Thanks to all of you who gave their help,
Best regards

Paulo Santos
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Roland Kuit



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a logic pulse would help too in this case. the trigger time can be extended as long you need

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varice



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

roland kuit wrote:
a logic pulse would help too in this case. thr trigger time can be extended as long you need


You are right, the Pulse module is probably better to use than the Delay. I had incorrectly assumed that the Pulse output would also go low when the input goes low.

Also, the source of the short pulse is the Clock module. The Sequencer just passes this short pulse through when it is set to trigger mode. I have edited my first post to make these corrections.

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