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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Atari punk console + Baby sequencer 4017 IC
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JRock



Joined: Mar 05, 2010
Posts: 75
Location: Bucks County, PA
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi. I guess this is my first post here. I've been lurking for awhile.
I breadboarded the baby8 + APC from the first page. I used a 566 for the oscillator. I omitted the photocell as well. I used 47K for the LEDs as well.
(they're pretty dim).
I too am a beginner.
My counter seems to skip beats and I think that only one oscillator is working.
When I flip the DPDT all I get is clicks. Also when I'm in the lower range there doesn't seem to be much variation in the pitches. This weekend when I built it that part seemed alright but now it's a little wonky. It's tough to tell exactly where it's going wrong cuz a couple pots keep popping out of the breadboard. It seems to keep better time if I put a fresh battery in. I tried the 1K resistor and all that does is slow it down some, not keep the rhythm steady

Now that I have a (semi) functional oscillator it gave me an excuse to build the filter from the WSG

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/YOUR_FIRST_SYNTH/YOUR_FIRST_SYNTH.html

When the B8ATC works correctly it sounds pretty cool.
I'd like to figure a way to hook the pots from the sequencer up to the filter
to trigger automatic changes in it...

But I guess I better figger' out my B8ATC before I get too ambitious.

I'll be damned if it doesn't work right now!! I tried placing a cap right after the power and it didn't work. I tried placing a cap in front of the 555 and it didn't work. I took the cap out and put everything back together and it works right??? Damn LoFi...javascript:emoticon('Rolling Eyes')
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JackRabbit



Joined: Aug 15, 2010
Posts: 8
Location: USA - Virginia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There's been a lot of good info in this thread, thank you all so much, you've really helped me out on my build. I am only using the 8step sequencer and the 555 clock portion, but I am encountering an interesting issue with step length.

Someone mentioned earlier about triggering the circuit from an external source. What I've done is hocked up a TR707 RIM OUT [which sends programmable clock pulses] to the 555 [pin 5] to clock the clock! But the steps are super short Confused Instead of being nice long notes, the 555 [or the 4017] resets much too quickly resulting in uncomfortable silences. Any idea what is happening here? Why is this different than the 555 running on its own [which sounds fine].
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Danno Gee Ray



Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 1341
Location: Telford, PA USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just a guess, but the TR707 is probably outputting triggers, which are very short in nature. What the 555 circuit would use is more closely approximated by gates. You may need a converter to gate the 555 from the triggers.
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JackRabbit



Joined: Aug 15, 2010
Posts: 8
Location: USA - Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've done some research, and can only find gate to trigger, not the reverse. Any tips? What frustrates me is I KNOW it's possible, because it worked on the breadboard layout before I panel mounted everything.
This page http://www.doepfer.de/faq/gen_faq.htm has the pin layout for the DIN SYNC, perhaps I could tap into the clock pin, and send that to the sequencer instead?
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Synthrotek



Joined: Sep 04, 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We sell 8 or 10 step sequencer kits and apc kits, if someone is looking to make the project below, it would be quite easy with our boards and instructions. Currently i would like to use just the leds on our sequencer pcb in a circular layout with a photo resistor. Anyone have a good link to project like this?
Synthrotek.com
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 750

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just noticed some activity here! OK, so it works fine with the 555 running the 4017? And you want to use the TR707 as a method of triggering the step count on the 4017 I'm assuming.

I'd be disconnecting the link from PIN 3 (output) of the 555, to PIN 14 (clock input). Your TR707 should clock the 4017 at PIN 14. If that works, and is what you want, you could use a switch to select between the INTERNAL CLOCK (the 555), or and EXTERNAL CLOCK (your TR707 or something else).

Is this what you wanted to do? Hope it helps.
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JackRabbit



Joined: Aug 15, 2010
Posts: 8
Location: USA - Virginia

PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One would think this would be the case. I tried what you said and found that the 4017 doesn't really like the trigger from the 707. The pulses are still brief, and all I get is some static blips from the synth. The whole setup has some sort of grounding issue too; touching the faceplate of the sequencer alters the pitch somewhat.
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 750

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

when you say, "static blips from the synth", does this mean you have built the APC part too? I was under the impression that you had only built the sequencer part.

Could you explain what you are using the sequencer for? You could invert the 707 pulse using a 4011. This means when the pulse from the 707 is ON, the pulse to the clock in of the 4017 is OFF... and vice versa. You wold then get a long trigger into the 4017 every time the 707 puts out a short pulse.

Sounds like a grounding issue. If your face plate is metal, you should run a wire to the (-) ground... this should stop the grounding problem you are having.
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ggj1977



Joined: Nov 08, 2011
Posts: 1
Location: Florian├│polis - Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Arpegio Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, everyone...
I'm new on this forum (also on electronics/circuit bending)... I'm from Brazil, so sorry about any bad english...
When I first saw this schematic, I asked myself if is that a way to put these components in order to play the 8 note sequence a single time, adding the value of the variable resistor from APC to the specific value of each variable resistor of the sequencer, aiming this way an arpegio effect... Is that any other easier way to do it? Thanks, everybody.



-minus- wrote:
For some strange reason, the images are in reverse order... Embarassed

I've never posted images before... I previewed them... but they seemed to appear in reverse order... so I reloaded them in reverse hoping they would come out the right way... but no!

Don't worry about me.... just a bit confused... Confused
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Lysol



Joined: Mar 06, 2012
Posts: 8
Location: PA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi, all. first post.

I'm going to be building a baby 10 sometime soon and i'm going to be using a 555 for the clock and most likely a 556 for a built in oscillator. I'm planning on having an "audio out" from the 556 to hear the sequenced oscillator, and also a control voltage out from the sequencer so other things could be sequenced with it as well.

What confuses me sort of is the designs in this thread call for the sequencer to be sent to a trigger pin(s) (#6 or #8 ) of the 556, correct? Why not one of the control voltage pins (#3 or #11)? I was just under the impression that things operated under control voltage principles and therefore you'd be using a cv in pin on the 556. But hey, i guess i'm wrong and you're triggering it?

And lastly, would both trigger pins be connected to the sequencer, or would just one work?

i guess really i'm just not sure exactly the best way (there seems to be multiple?) to connect the APC to the sequencer. Any help smoothing out these simple details is appreciated.
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boguz



Joined: Mar 30, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: finland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi guys...

i am really new to this electronic thing. Apart from a couple of really simple circuits that came as "tutorials" with the "Discover Electronics" kit i bought, i haven't really done ANYTHING!!!

I have, though, built a couple of times a APC in a breadboard but just about when i was thinking in making it in a nice box and all, i found this thread!
=)

Maybe it is "too much sand for my truck", but still, i got to it...

I have follows the drawing in this thread and i came to this:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

It looks a big mess (and my girlfriends asked me already a couple of times if i am building a bomb...) but the problem is that I GET NO SOUND!!!

The yellow LED (the tempo LED) is working and the LEDs in the sequencer also work (they blink in sequence).
The tempo change potentiometer also works (but when i turn it all the way up the LEDs stop blinking).

The connections to the switches and jack are not welded, they are just "wire turned", but when i measure with the multimeter it seems to have good connection.

The ICs there in the picture, from left to right are:
4017, 555 Clock, 555 OSC A and 555 OSC B

I have tried to see if i have missed any connection, but very easily i get completely lost.
I am not sure if you are able to make something out from the picture, but still,
if someone has any ideas of what the problem (problems?) might be, i would be really glad to get this working!

Thank you!
=)
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 750

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm just looking at your photo now....

You could try putting a 1K resistor from pin 8 of the 555 CLOCK to your tempo pot. This should stop it from locking. I've had this problem before.

Can you measure the voltage on the CV out? The purple wire... is there voltage coming out of there? If there is, then maybe the problem is with the APC part of the circuit. If the LED's of the 4017 are flashing in sequence and the rate pot works, then your problem must be further along the line.

You say you have built a stand alone APC before. Can you disconnect the sequencer and test whether the APC part of this circuit is working?

EDIT: I'm just wondering about the 555 on the right of the photo. Don't pin 8 and pin 4 need to be linked as you have done with the other APC related 555? It might be worth checking that.
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boguz



Joined: Mar 30, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: finland

PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey, thanks, your idea of the 1k res worked well. =)

The rest... hmmm. i don't know what i have done, but the leds are not blinking 100%right anymore! =/ They blink in order and i can change the speed, but some leds in the middle (from led 4 to 7) are kind of "faded together".
Like if when one should blink, that energy goes to the 4 of them and they blink (much dimmer) together.

Is it so that all the black line in the drawing are connecting to ground? Do i really need to follow the exact same order or could i connect them directly to ground?

What about the red ones? Could i connect them to power directly or do they need to go in that specific order?

Quote:
You say you have built a stand alone APC before. Can you disconnect the sequencer and test whether the APC part of this circuit is working?

I have but always following some schematics or video. i will try tomorrow but i am not sure how to disconnect the APC from the sequencer.
Do i just disconnect the pins connecting to the 4017?


Quote:
Don't pin 8 and pin 4 need to be linked as you have done with the other APC related 555? It might be worth checking that.

i have now linked them together. But still no sound...


=/
Quote:
Can you measure the voltage on the CV out?

How can i make this?

Sorry for all the idiotic questions, but i am really lost...
=)
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 750

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think you should make sure all the IC's are getting power. I can't see from your photo, but is the 4017 connected to the (-) at pin 8? Also, are all the 555 IC's connected to the (+) at pin 8, and are they all connected to the (-) at pin 1?

You can measure the voltage where the diodes terminate at the pots with a voltmeter. This is where the purple wire begins on the lower breadboard. If you don't have a voltmeter, you could connect say a 1K resistor and LED from this point to the (-) just to see that there is some power coming through there.

Try look at every IC and go through each pin to see you have wired it correctly. It is often something very simple which causes these problems. You could print off the drawing you are working from and use a highlighter pen to mark off the wires and components as you check them with your breadboard.

Perhaps someone else will spot something... Just double check everything.

The order of the wires going to ground should not matter.
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boguz



Joined: Mar 30, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: finland

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey
today i had some time to work on this project...

i used the method of underlining the connections while i was checking them in the breadboard.
But i think i had maybe copied bad (i didn't have a printer at hand, so i ust copied the drawing from the computer) so there was something wrong or missing. I double checked and it seemed ok, but you never know...

I spent some time and i actually got nowhere, so i decided to take it all apart and start again with 200% attention and a printed drawing.

I left the sequencer part (the leds, pots, resistors and diodes) as i thought there was no problem there.

= = = = = =

From the drawing i can't really understand how is it that the APC is connected to the sequencer.
Do you know of any website where i could read about how a APC works? What are the roles of each pin, etc...

What if i would build an APC (i have done it before from 556), would it then be possible to connect it to the clock and sequencer?

Is the APC part of this project a "normal ATC", or are there any special features?

Sorry from such noob questions, but i am trying to learn as i go in the little bits of free time i am having!

Thank you for your patience and HELP!!!
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Banjo



Joined: Sep 27, 2009
Posts: 59
Location: Atlantic County, N.J. USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I see you have a stereo socket with a 1/4 inch stereo adaptor. From the picture, it looks like both of the audio leads are connected together on the breadboard at the cap. Are you plugged into the adaptor with a mono line to your amp? If so, are you sure that your ground wire is not shorting to one of the audio leads? Ii's hard to tell from the picture.

If your audio connections are correct, then try using just one of the 555 oscillators to get some sound. I just hooked up a 555 based oscillator to an APC. I based the oscillator on a schematic I have in a book, that I modified without really testing to see if it worked. In theory it should work, but my results are not what I wanted. It is pretty cool though. However, depending on how I have my pots and switches set on it, it does not always make a sound.

One last idea, what size caps are you using on the 555? Too much uf, and you will not hear anything. I forget what I have on mine, but .01uf I think should work well enough for testing it. I still have a lot to learn, and am no expert. Hope this helps.
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 750

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can you tell us which drawing you are working from?
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boguz



Joined: Mar 30, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: finland

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey...
i am sorry that i didn't reply this last couple of this. work here has been crazy and this project has been there sitting on the table waiting that i have some free time.

i was working from the drawing of the 4th November 2009 that i found on the first page of this thread..
But, as you maybe read before, i have opened the whole thing.
My plan would be now to build an APC that works well, and then try to connect it to the sequencer.
i think i will build it from a 556.

Any insights on how to then connect the APC and the sequencer are very welcome!! Very Happy
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IceQubed



Joined: Apr 19, 2012
Posts: 1
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi, I have access to both veroboard and PCB, but IMO I would prefer to make it on a PCB, it is more compact. Does anybody have a PCB design for the whole Punk+Sequencer build (single sided, ready for photo-etching)? If I can't find one, I'll use Minus' veroboard design, which seems to be good.
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Chuck75



Joined: Jun 10, 2012
Posts: 1
Location: barcelona

PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Schematics
Subject description: Schematics
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This are the most beautiful Schematics I've seen.
Inspired me to make one.
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Mr Basajaun



Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Can Renou

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi I'm making this device and i have some questions, if anybody can help me...


- I don't understand whats the function of the DPDT . I understand it makes connection between D & E / J & C and viceversa. But what's happen with the sound, whats the audible effects of changing the points to D&C / J & E ?


- I want to use two pots and photoresistors for APC section: one for OSC A and another for OSC B like the first schematic (the wrong one) is it possible to combine it with the DPDT ? Or do i have to choose between pot in OSC A or DPDT?


I have this project almost finish, only left some solders and paint the enclosure. Photos in some days!

By the way, great diagrams, Minus!
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Mr Basajaun



Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Can Renou

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7mBVULX5xM

This is my APC baby sequencer almost finish. The whole thing works ok, except that Clock is getting vey fast even at full range and sometimes the sequencer goes "crazy" and jumps steps.
I combine DPDT with pots in OSC A & OSC B. Maybe i make a mistake that are the cause of that problems?

Thanks!
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 750

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Mr Basajaun,

You may want to check that pin 13 of the 4017 is connected to GROUND. This could be the problem with the steps jumping around erratically. You could slow the sequencer clock down by increasing the capacitor on pin 2 of the 555 timer.

I watched your video. It took me a while to figure out what the enclosure actually was Laughing !
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Mr Basajaun



Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Can Renou

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Minus! I check your advices this evening, i hope you're right and the problems disappear. I think i spent more time thinking about the enclosure than soldering!

By the way how do you do your diagrams? They're pretty cool!
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Mr Basajaun



Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Can Renou

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I check all the connexion and find nothing, but when i change the value of the clock cap, yeah! the leds stop going crazy.

Thanks!!!!

Now my next project is to make one miniamp to make the sequencer portable.
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