electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Atari punk console + Baby sequencer 4017 IC
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 2 of 7 [166 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Author Message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:59 am    Post subject:
Subject description: working !!!
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cool Minus.
I built mine point to point originally combining the most recent layout with the apc pot config from the first version. I did try to simplify the layout the reduce the amount of cable by placing the chips differently and using jumpers where possible. the less moving parts the better. In the end I just scrapped the whole apc as it appears int he layout and built a 556 stripboard version which I then connected to the sequencer on pin 2 (contrary to what I mentioned earlier about pin 6).
So basically I have several little modules joined together.

I'm trying to give it a little more fat by running it through a pseudo ring modulator (thing modulator by tim escobedo) and/or some fuzz pedals. Just testing some combinations.
I threw together an ic buffer with a TL072 I had on hand but I don't know whether to place it right after the sequencer or after the apc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject:
Subject description: leds not lighting ?
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Minus, I had a similar problem initially with the last led on pot 8. I just removed the resistor altogether and it finally got to blinking. The leds light slightly for me too like you see, but then when I look at them from the top it's ok even if it's not as bright ad I'd like.

I'm trying to figure out a switch method to go from 8 steps to 4. I think it can be done with a dpdt. Will keep you posted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GREAT!

Yeah, the LED's are dim. Maybe the 80K resistors are too large a value? I'll experiment tomorrow/today... 5AM here! Just as well I don't have a REAL job! Been up all night doing an Atari art style illustration of the stripboard. Will post tomorrow... nearly finished!

I was thinking about a switch to cut the steps down too. I have a rotary switch here I might play with. Be good to dial however many steps you want. I think it's just a matter of connecting to pin 15 (the reset pin) on the 4017.

I never had much luck with the 556 APC. Tried last year but gave up and went with the dual 555 design.

I really want to look into this THING MODULATOR you mentioned too! Curious about ring modulators... Got too many projects on the go at the same time... or finished but not in cases!

Not sure about the IC buffer. I have some TL 072's on hand... not even sure what the IC buffer does? Buffer IC's I guess... scratch

Thanks for the info AIRFRANKENSTEIN!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Went through a few very late nights myself getting this thing built.

The thing modulator is an easy build (maybe 6 components in all), a quick and dirty pseudo ring modulator.
It uses a LMC567 that's tough to find here in Europe. You can use a NE567 but you'll get crazy oscillation that you either love or hate. There's a few forums on diy stompboxes that tackle the question. I find it does the job
here's a layout :
http://bearison.com/worthekik/thing.html

I'm going to wait on the opamp...don't really understand either - just saw a clip on you tube of someone who had added one to his sequencer along with a fuzz stage and dug the sound. With a few effects after the sequencer I'm able to get a good variety of sounds.

Regarding steps, is it that simple to add a rotary switch? Those switches scare me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If YOU cant find the LMC567 in Europe easily, then I think I'll have little chance in rural Australia! I did read a bit about the ring modulator. Might try the NE567. I'm not afraid of 'crazy'!

I used a rotary switch on a Gristleizer I built recently. (It too is still unboxed! Overall it was really disappointing. I love Throbbing Gristle, but this effect is seriously overrated!) Rotary switches are a bit daunting. I bought two different types. One which I didn't use has this ring washer on it which you can 'program' as to how many positions you want the thing to switch through. Pin 15 is the reset on the 4017. In our case pin 9 is tied or linked to pin 15. This starts the cycle all over again when it gets to the 9th step. So I'm thinking that for 4 steps, pin 10 (which is the 5th step) would need to be tied to pin 15. Whether pin 9 needs to be disconnected when pin 10 is connected, I don't know. Wouldn't be too difficult to experiment with, I would imagine.

As soon as I wake up a bit, have a few litres of coffee, consume several cancer inducing cigarettes, wash the crap out of my eyes... etc, I'll finish the stripboard diagram and post it. Then I'll try play around with the rotary switch idea. I shall keep you informed!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Australia! I'm waiting for Frostwave to get back into business making pedals --- He had a very cool ring mod


As soon as I wake up a bit, have a few litres of coffee, consume several cancer inducing cigarettes, wash the crap out of my eyes... etc, I'll finish the stripboard diagram and post it.

breakfast of champions! much of the same here in France.


I used a rotary switch on a Gristleizer I built recently. (It too is still unboxed! Overall it was really disappointing. I love Throbbing Gristle, but this effect is seriously overrated!)

yup...


Pin 15 is the reset on the 4017. In our case pin 9 is tied or linked to pin 15. This starts the cycle all over again when it gets to the 9th step. So I'm thinking that for 4 steps, pin 10 (which is the 5th step) would need to be tied to pin 15. Whether pin 9 needs to be disconnected when pin 10 is connected, I don't know. Wouldn't be too difficult to experiment with, I would imagine.

I thought step 5 was pin 1 and so I couldn't figure out the disconnect, reconnect part. Let me know if you work it out.

As soon as I wake up a bit, have a few litres of coffee, consume several cancer inducing cigarettes, wash the crap out of my eyes...

breakfast of champions ...my favorite as well
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

France!

Step 5 is pin 10. Pin 1 is actually step 6.

I am still working on the stripboard diagram! Hoping to post in the next few hours...

I'll muck around with the rotary switch in the next couple of days.

Yeah, drinking LOADS of coffee and many many cigarettes!!! Got to keep busy! Had a 'merde' start to the year... thought I had the girl, but now she is gone. I'm sure this happens in France too! ...she even looked like Betty Blue! At least I have time for electronic experimentation now... that's one consolation I guess. Circuits are SO much more easier to troubleshoot than humans! Crying or Very sad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now able to jump between 4 and 8 steps using a dpdt switch.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Good to see the switch works for the 4 to 8 step option!

I have just replaced the 80K resistors with 18K resistors... the step LED's are burning more brightly with no noticeable difference in sound. 10K replacements seemed to change the sound...18K work well.

Still drawing the stripboard diagram! Just the underside to draw... and the pot wiring and switches. I keep saying this, but I should be able to post this soon!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Finally.... Got the vero/stripboard diagrams done. Maybe if I played around with it more, it could fit into a smaller footprint... but I have built and tested this, and it works fine... far as I can tell. I changed the LED resistors from 80K to 18K as the bulbs weren't burning too brightly. Also I have added an on/off LED and switch. Admittedly I don't have the LDR connected to my build yet, but I think the diagram is correct...


APC + 4017 Sequencer COMPONENTS vero.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  496.11 KB
 Viewed:  399 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

APC + 4017 Sequencer COMPONENTS vero.jpg



APC + 4017 Sequencer LEVEL 4 vero.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  411.13 KB
 Viewed:  459 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

APC + 4017 Sequencer LEVEL 4 vero.jpg



APC + 4017 Sequencer LEVEL 3 vero.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  512.32 KB
 Viewed:  431 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

APC + 4017 Sequencer LEVEL 3 vero.jpg



APC + 4017 Sequencer LEVEL 2 vero.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  683.78 KB
 Viewed:  371 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

APC + 4017 Sequencer LEVEL 2 vero.jpg



APC + 4017 Sequencer LEVEL 1 vero.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  648.77 KB
 Viewed:  492 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

APC + 4017 Sequencer LEVEL 1 vero.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For some strange reason, the images are in reverse order... Embarassed

I've never posted images before... I previewed them... but they seemed to appear in reverse order... so I reloaded them in reverse hoping they would come out the right way... but no!

Don't worry about me.... just a bit confused... Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Minus those are some very cool layouts !
By reverse order I take it you mean the levels and not the images themselves ?

Did you do your build on stripboard btw ?


cheers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, built it on stripboard.... NO PROBLEMS with the diagram. What I meant was that I wanted the top image to come last, and vice versa. Just being a bit picky! Might be using this method of oldskool atari art for future stripboards seeing I have a lot of the components drawn up in Illustrator now.

Got the device cranking at a fast rate as I type! That 1K resistor to the 1M pot seems to do the job ok. Just been seeing how much I can reduce the value and get it not to cut out.

Was wondering... I have found that in general that with the 100K pots, about two thirds of the rotation has no sound at all. What are your, or other builders experiences here? I'm wondering what can be done about this. It seems we have a little range to use on these pots. The last third of a clockwise turn is the only part which works! I wonder if a smaller pot value would change this, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Maybe a resistor needed in conjunction with the pot somewhere? Or a larger pot???

I might have to do a bit of experimenting here...

Any ideas?

Anyone?

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ALSO... and sorry for filling this forum up with reams of crap....

I have just been playing around with reducing the value of the 8 resistors going to the LED's which indicate the steps. I suggested that 18K was ok. I have been trying 10K and getting a little more brightness. The trade off here is you notice a lowering of tone when you connect the led. Not really a problem though as the highest pitch note doesn't seem adversely altered. The general rule seems to be, the lower the value of resistance, the brighter the LED. But I guess it's 'sucking' a bit more off the available power (current? voltage?) not sure what you'd call it, from the pot... Well, looks like it's taken me a year to learn or begin to understand what these little stripey things called resistors might be doing!!! Takes me a while to learn anything these days Exclamation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

regarding the 100k pots my impression is that the whole range affects the sound but perhaps less in terms of pitch than in terms of step. have to experiment some more and will get back with a more conclusive report.
otherwise this thing really grooves!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HMMM.... I find that the first two thirds of a clockwise turn is doing nothing. I get no sound on that step at all. It seems to take to about '2 o'clock' on the pot dial for the low deep rumbling clicking APC sounds to kick in. It is a fun thing to play with though! I want to put a switch in this circuit so we can manually pulse through each step and tune each note before we start the sequencer running. Also a on/off switch on each step might be useful... although with my 100K's having a good 2/3rds of a blank spot on them, this may not be necessary Very Happy

Looking forward to the results of your research into this very important field of Atari Punkology!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

atari punkology...my impression now is that the pots have more effect on the sound as you increase the pitch. Anyone know for sure ?

Also Minus, did you figure out how to wire a rotary switch up to select the number of steps. I've got a 4p3T I'd like to try but I'm having a hard time understanding the science.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3759
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

say you want to use all the 10 steps of the 4017, then you'll need a 1pole-10position switch. the common lorlin rotary switches are available as 1pole-12pos, but can be limited to any step count you need.

below you'll find a schematic of the wiring:
COM is connected to the reset input of the 4017
1st step of the IC (Q0) is not connected to the switch. why? if connected to position 1 of the switch and then routed to the reset it would work as STOP on step 1 (INHERIT).
the following steps of the IC are connected one by one to the positions of the rotary.
the 10th position of the switch is left open. why? when the counter IC reached step 10 (Q9) it will need no reset but start from the beginning on it's own.

if you wanted to use only 8 steps then just limit the switch to 8 position and still conenct Q8 to position 8 of the switch.

hope that helps.


4017_stepswitch.gif
 Description:
 Filesize:  18.95 KB
 Viewed:  184 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

4017_stepswitch.gif



_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
fonitronik at
FlickR (pix) / SoundCloud (sounds) / YouTube (vids) / Vimeo (vids) / facebook (news)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3759
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
The general rule seems to be, the lower the value of resistance, the brighter the LED. But I guess it's 'sucking' a bit more off the available power (current? voltage?) not sure what you'd call it, from the pot...

the general rule is called 'Ohm's Law':
I=V/R or
Current=Voltage/Resistance or
Ampere=Voltage/Ohm

a LED is driven by current. resistor in front or behind a LED converts the voltage into current, and according the law above you are right: the lower the ristance, the higher the current, thus the brighter the LED.
BTW a CMOS provides only limited current, so for stable operation it would be better to buffer the outputs, but i think that's not what you necessarily wanted to do with a badass punk console!?
maybe you could try super bright LEDs? then you would need less current for driving the LEDs (using higher resistance). additionally you could try using 500k pots or even 1M to reduce the current draw from the 4017...

_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
fonitronik at
FlickR (pix) / SoundCloud (sounds) / YouTube (vids) / Vimeo (vids) / facebook (news)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for your help fonik !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject:
Subject description: rotary switch question again
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry if this sounds dumb but I'm about to put a rotary in and i just want to be sure i've understood correctly: I take the wire running from the 4017 to one of the pots for example and solder on another wire going from the same pot to the appropriate position on the rotary ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fonik



Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3759
Location: Germany
Audio files: 23

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yes.
_________________
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
cheers,
matthias
____________
fonitronik at
FlickR (pix) / SoundCloud (sounds) / YouTube (vids) / Vimeo (vids) / facebook (news)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

just a quick question...could the individual 80k resistors on the leds be replaced by something like just one 470k resistor on the first led ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My immediate impression is that it wouldn't work. I assume you mean the wire going from pin 1 of the clock 555? And after the 1K resistor going to the pulse rate led? I think this would affect the sound on all 8 of the 100K pots. I have used 18K resistors on all 8 LED's which has made them burn brighter.

I am going to try what fonik mentioned about using super bright LED's. They are more expensive, but probably worth it. You could just buy 1 and test it before buying 8!

Good luck! I won't be able to look at this until next week!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 40
Location: france

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:30 am    Post subject:
Subject description: sequencer bleed-through
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is one very odd thing happening.
I'm running the sequencer through a daisy chain 9v power supply for multiple effects and the sound seems to bleed over the power line.
I have a dual oscillator on this daisy chain and even if I unplug the output of the sequencer the sound plays through the oscillator!!! Any idea what's happening ? Is this normal ? Does it have something to do with the diodes ?


Hope someone can help.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 2 of 7 [166 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use