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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Atari punk console + Baby sequencer 4017 IC
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Airfrankenstein: I'm wondering if a power diode on your (+) power supply might stop this? But then again I'm a bit of a novice... maybe someone else might know?

I have just tried wiring the 500K and 1M pots differently. Not a big change... just took the wire going to the left tab and re-soldered it to the right tab. To me the pots seem to respond in reverse to what I'd think was logical. Now when I turn the 500K clockwise, the tone gets higher. And with the pulse rate on the 1M pot, when I turn it clockwise, the rate gets faster.

I still have the two thirds of the eight 100K pot unusable problem. About to experiment with 500K pots and 1M pots to see if I can push that unusable portion back to a bare minimum. Will post findings soon.

Oh yeah, discovering some interesting 'bends' along the way. Will share once scientific study is complete! Laughing

One more thing: Anyone have any ideas about making more distinctive bleeps on each step? At the moment if the eight pots are all the same setting, the tone becomes one long tone if you know what I mean... Nice to get short gaps between each. Am I needing transistors here? Or small capacitors? scratch
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK... The 500K pot didn't do much so I tried a 5K pot. Nope... There is a problem here. Why is the first two thirds (or more) of the pot blank in terms of sound??? Maybe a resistor along the (-) wire to the 8 pots might do it?

I've tried 2 coffees, 5 cigarettes, and a 500K pot...
Then tried a 5K pot, 2 cigarettes... so maybe 500 coffees would help?
No wait! What about 500 cigarettes, 5 coffees, and a 2K pot?
Hmmm... the cigarettes? In series... or parallel?

Anybody?
Twisted Evil
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airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 44
Location: france

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

no light at the end of the tunnel here either minus.
I'm experiencing the same frustration with the tone pots. you're right - there seems to be very little variation in pitch.
My pots too work kind of backwards, but for that moment I can live with that.

I did get the rotary in which makes things alot more interesting plus the on/off switches on each step which is also quite efficient.

tried the IK between speed pot and pin 8 of 555 clock but now for some reason the sequencer just goes blip blip blip...
here we go again...
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 761

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

MY MISTAKE!

...the 500K pot did perform differently! Lack of sleep caused me to rewire the 100K pot I had removed back on... Yes, with the 500K pot I am getting a full sweep with the rotation. However, most of the tonal difference seems to be at the fully clockwise end. This seems the case with the stand alone APC come to think of it.....

This noise device is seriously p*ssing off my ex whom I am staying with whilst visiting my son... I have been moved outside and I am now hand wiring on the back step under moonlight! A good sign actually... bad noise is good noise! Might have to wait until sun up to retest with all eight pots at 500K.

The 100K thing did have me wondering you know. The original APC I built did have two 500K's...

Blah, blah....
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airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 44
Location: france

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool.
I might give it a try as well.
It's up and running again, lack of sleep here as well, I pulled the pin 15 wire off the rotary whence the blips.

I might try running the sequencer with a sine wave generator to see if that makes any difference regarding pot sweeps.



Nobody here apart from myself seems keen on the sequencer. such is life.

sign me somewhere between a werewolf and a zombie.

cheers
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
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Audio files: 13

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ha ha! I'm of the belief I must have VAMPIRE in my genes.

Look, now I'm not sure about the 500K swap... I have tried so many combinations I'm not sure what works anymore. A recent discovery is that by cutting the wire from pin 1 of the clock 555.... the wire which goes to the pulse LED and resistor.... the pulse LED burns less brightly, but the pay off here is that the 100K pots have more of a usable range to them. I'm thinking that by using those super bright LED's which are more efficient, this will open up the sweep range and still have reasonably bright LED's. Testing need to be done here! ...but need to return home on sunday first (back to my castle in Transylvania) to source parts. Laughing

I really can't understand why nobody seems to like this sequencer other than ourselves? Perhaps it is only something demons of the night appreciate. Maybe thats why we are not hearing the frequencies on the pots? Perhaps if we were human we would understand why nobody likes it! I think every home should have at least one. And they should be kept on at all times... like a refrigerator!
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airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 44
Location: france

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

We've got two now in our home.

Keep us posted about your test with the super brights. I'm off for a week.
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airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 44
Location: france

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

maybe a tapered pot or a log pot would work better. I think you can try putting a resistor across pins 1 and 3 of the pot.
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blue_lu



Joined: Nov 16, 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi,

another Euro dude here. Just wanted to let you know that I am reading all this with great interest as I have dreamed about something like this since I build my first atari punk console kit.

speaking of get lofi they sell kits for a 555 clock, 4017 Sequencer too - anyone tried to hook these up with the apc kit?

of course doing it yourself on vero/perf board is the real deal... I am watching and will attempt to build this in late february (stupid uni exams,heh).
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airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 44
Location: france

PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey blue lu,

cool to see someone else is interested !
you might want to give it a go using minus' stripboard layout which makes the build a little easier.
It's a nice simple sequencer : the only weak point is the issue with the pots' lack of effect on tonal variations.
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blue_lu



Joined: Nov 16, 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Airfrankenstein,

thats what I am going to do (using the layout) , even though this will be my first "free" build on stripboard...

I acutally will have to look up how the stripboard itself works Smile

But it will be done.

Would you guys care to share some pics (gutshots) of your finished builds?

I am not really sure how to keep the pots + leds + resistors as tidy as possible...


Cool to have finally found a place with some "advanced-beginner" project like this!!! Cool

Later, Lu
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airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 44
Location: france

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll post some pics shortly...messy guts.

Finding an enclosure, drilling and bolting all the pots before wiring and soldering helped make things a little tidier.
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blue_lu



Joined: Nov 16, 2009
Posts: 32
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool, definetaly looking forward to those pics

regarding tonal variation -

the pots of the sequencer do change the pitch of the apc, no?

what do you mean by "lack of tonal variation" ?

Later, Lu
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airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 44
Location: france

PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

actually they affect the voltage. when I say lack of tonal variation I mean that Minus and myself find that a large portion of the pot has little effect on the pitch produced by this voltage variation. Sorry, I can't be much clearer than that as my terminology is pretty sloppy.

I don't know whether the limited influence of the pots is due to the pots themselves or to the apc. I'm in the process of modifying the sequencer once again to try it with another oscillator.

posts soon.
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello blue_lu!

Good to have someone else tinkering with this too. It seemed that airfrankenstein and myself were the only ones left in the solar system who want to corrupt this planet with these sounds.

I can confirm that the stripboard actually works. If you have never used it before, I can pass on some tips. Get a 3mm drill bit and a pin vice if possible. A pin vice is a small screw driver looking drill bit holder... not expensive. You are best cutting the stripboard tracks by partially drilling into the board at the designated points. Stripboard can be cut with a Stanley Knife/box cutter... Score both sides fairly deeply and snap!

Now, the problems with the pots... I get no tone at all on the 8 step pots for about 2/3 of a clockwise turn. Still trying to remedy this somehow. The pots of the sequencer DO change the pitch! The switch does a lot to the tone too. One mode has distinctive stepped notes; the other has those punk console crackles. I hooked up a TR808 kick drum stripboard to it last night and got it triggering that too. I've got sidetracked with other projects. Just stripboarded a Cacophonator and painting the enclosure for that. I'll be drawing that up and posting it soon. Love the Cacophonator!

Ok, pics. Still not in a box. Deciding on that still. I've got a plastic skull here with the cranium chopped off. Was thinking of putting it in that. The other idea I had was going steam-punk with it... Wood and brass levers...

I don't have a camera otherwise I'd post a photo! I could take some photo's on my phone, but they won't be very great resolution.
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airfrankenstein



Joined: Jan 10, 2010
Posts: 44
Location: france

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi all.
will get the pics up soon, i just keep taking the thing apart to try and improve it and the result is it gets messier and messier looking.
Minus, when you connect it to the tr808 do you cut the connection to the apc part ? I'd like to put a jck out for the vc. Also, read somewhere that a 40106 will provide better sound --- after having consulted various layouts for sequencers, all of which seem to use 100k pots, I'm wondering if the apc isn't to blame as well for the limited tonal range.
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No, not cutting wires to APC pots. Just connecting earth of 808 to earth on sequencer and trigger (+) to one or more of the 4017 outputs going to the pots. Problem with these type of sequencers is that it wont trigger two consecutive steps, instead it counts them as one. Hmmm... Depending on the APC pot setting on each step seems to have an effect on the drum triggering too. Sometimes the drum won't trigger at all. Much to learn yet.

I'm thinking I might try some diodes on the pots elsewhere... would like to have the option of linking other devices to this as well as running the APC at the same time. Maybe I should just do an external clock in option and build a 'proper' sequencer to run the other stuff as well as this if need be. Don't want to get too technical though... might start sounding too in time and musical... it might make people want to dance to it and not cover their ears! It would cease to annoy and be irritating.... We wouldn't want that now, would we? Twisted Evil
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a photo of the guts taken with a phone... I used one of those connectors for the 4017 output wires to try and contain a messy cable situation. Those 12 pin plugs are fiddly to wire up though...


Apc 4017 01.jpg
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've had a look around... I'm thinking what I am going to do is finish this APC + 4017 sequencer and build a better sequencer for the other jobs. I think this Fonik one is a logical next step, if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.modular.fonik.de/Page22.html

I'll put a clock IN socket on this APC one. That way if I want to run it off the Fonik build, I can.
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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
I think this Fonik one is a logical next step, if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.modular.fonik.de/Page22.html

this schematic needs to be updated. i would definately not use the clock and reset circuitry as shown in this schematc, but rather use the one i made for the seqential switch:
http://www.modular.fonik.de/Page32.html

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matthias
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blue_lu



Joined: Nov 16, 2009
Posts: 32
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

minus, thanks for all the insight.

that definetly looks like clean build. I als had a look at foniks stuff earlier on, but considering I am pretty much a novice when it comes to reading schematics, I will stick to your layout for th apc + sequencer.

I am still not really in the picture regarding the problems you guys ran into:
so far I understood:
- the tone knobs of the apc don't work
- the pots of the sequencer only influence the pitch at the last half of their range
- leds could be brighter

Is that about it?

Minus, I am also really curious about your cacophonator layout! much to learn here...
Later, Lu
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the update Fonik! Ok, I will have a look at the clock for the sequential switch in a second... Thanks for putting a schematic up for your sequencer. I'm only just starting to get the hang of how schematics work!

Blue_lu:

The tone knobs DO work. I can confirm that when the sequencer is running, you can indeed adjust the knobs of the eight steps and get the normal myriad of tones a standard punk console gives. It's just that the pots don't seem to kick in until over half a turn of a knob. This does not however mean you are missing out on any of the punk console noises... the control just seems to be in the second half of the turn. No noise in the first half or so... plenty in the rest of a knob turn.

All the knobs are working...including myself! Laughing As far as the LED's go, I'm going to test the super bright variety in the next couple of days. I'll post results! I really don't see a problem with this stripboard. Perhaps the pot problem is just something inherent with the initial design? I really don't know... only been soldering for just over a year... like you, I'm still learning!

I'll post the Cacophonator stripboard soon as I draw it up so it's legible! It pretty much runs according to the circuit posted here:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-14440.html

Will get this done very soon. About to assemble the Cocophonator in it's box tonight...

Hope this clears up any APC + 4017 questions....
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blue_lu



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Minus, thanks a lot.

I will get to it asap! Very Happy
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have come up with a good design for an enclosure for this... might take a couple of weeks to get built... been busy with other things! Need to test some superbright LED's yet. Maybe today...

Not much else to report. Will post pics when it's done...
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555



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Location: Chile

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:10 pm    Post subject: buffering 556 input? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi guys, i am building the seq with the APC. Waching this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe1ButmzNWY i noted this guy put a buffer in 556 input. Anybody knows the reason?

Also I noted there are both pot in APC, base tunning and pulse with, when i try this way i solved problem of blank pots, now i am using 500K pot with almost all the range working.

chears
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