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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Klee sequencer
Software Klee now available!
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dnigrin



Joined: Aug 20, 2009
Posts: 76
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:32 pm    Post subject:  Software Klee now available! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just in case folks missed the preview thread about the software Klee that I developed - it is now available!

http://defectiverecords.com/klee

There's a free and quite functional demo available, and it supports both Mac and Windows. The full version is $40, a portion of which gets donated back to E-M. Developed with the assistance and advice of many Klee "veterans" including Scott Stites himself!

I'm gearing up to begin work on the next version, including new enhancements, so if you have suggestions, please post them! I'd also love to hear what people are doing with the software - so please post your work!

Thanks,

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fonik



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:42 am    Post subject: Re: Software Klee now available! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dnigrin wrote:
I'm gearing up to begin work on the next version, including new enhancements, so if you have suggestions, please post them!

it would be great to have at least program change incorporated. would be handy if you use the klee as standalone.
however, if you implemented a VSTi host this would be the greatest think i could think of in the moment...

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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your feedback Fonik - plugin hosting is definitely coming, as is CC control...

Dan

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KrIVIUM2323



Joined: Jan 01, 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

VstI Host would be a great feature... as for CC control could give (even more) insane sequences!

After playing a while with it i would suggest too:

A-B mode and some kind of transposition (octave minus mainly) control on the A+B output. It's possible to have it on my hardware synth anyway but having it on Software Klee Gui could be great and faster to perform.

If it is possible to implement some kind of midi CC outputs (in place of midi note output) and running 2 instance // (one for midi note and the other for CC) could lead to really weird things... For example with 'modifiers' section of Waldorf MWXT (for some lag works and process on CC flow) it should give awesome results.

But it must be a considerable amount of work i guess to add it... and with the need for 'post processing' of midi CC could interest a few owners ( except the ones with EMU samplers, Kurzwzeil samplers, Waldorf's synth and Nord Modulars are the only ones i think of...)

Dnigrin: I would like to thank you as this software give me clues on how i would use Klee and plan for control layout for my 'hardware Klee's' independently from the ability to drive midi synth easily which is wonderful.

Makes me wait a bit more to build them but for a more convenient ergonomical way that what i was thinking of in my first thoughs (i missed some features and how 'crucial'/important they are).

And it make my NM micro modular and Waldorf MWXT new ways of work! Great!

Last edited by KrIVIUM2323 on Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks KrIVIUM2323,

A-B (and B-A) are on the list of feature requests already, yes.

Re: transposition, I'm also considered implementing multiple different Baseline Notes, one for each of the different outputs (A, B, A+B, etc..). This would give more flexibility than the current single Baseline Note.

Your idea of outputting MIDI CC is very interesting, and I will consider it, thanks!!

I really appreciate the feedback, thanks again.

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KrIVIUM2323



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dan,

Quote:
midi CC outputs (in place of midi note output) and running 2 instance //


doing this let gate buss unused on one of the instance and it could be great to have this gates buses assignied to CC sending on/off state. To trigger env or glide or some kind of 'crude' accent.... for example...

I was dreaming last night of an other row of gate bus switch (duplicated from the main one and with slightly forward midi clock sending -1 or 2 PPQN) hardwired to glide/portamento midi CC... New kind of Tb303 mutant sequencer add on to Software Klee... Cool

But maybe too much infos on midi flow to keep the output midi signal stable and freeze less...

I though too in vstI mode could it be possible to had the same functionality as in D16 drummachine plugs: ability to select a memory pattern with one midi note playing from host sequencer or keyboard?

Great for live or quick (re)arrangement of songs.
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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

KrIVIUM2323 wrote:
Dan,

Quote:
midi CC outputs (in place of midi note output) and running 2 instance //


doing this let gate buss unused on one of the instance and it could be great to have this gates buses assignied to CC sending on/off state. To trigger env or glide or some kind of 'crude' accent.... for example...

I was dreaming last night of an other row of gate bus switch (duplicated from the main one and with slightly forward midi clock sending -1 or 2 PPQN) hardwired to glide/portamento midi CC... New kind of Tb303 mutant sequencer add on to Software Klee... Cool

But maybe too much infos on midi flow to keep the output midi signal stable and freeze less...

Although this is a great idea, I begin to worry a little bit about the complexity; as it is, I already get confused many times with what is happening with my sequence, and giving too many possibilities might have a negative effect...

That said, I already have plans for implementing slide/glide in the new version; it's one of the main things missing compared with the hardware Klee. I will likely use a similar approach that Numerology recently implemented, using pitch bend info. Won't be exactly like analog glide, but it will definitely add a new interesting element...
KrIVIUM2323 wrote:
I though too in vstI mode could it be possible to had the same functionality as in D16 drummachine plugs: ability to select a memory pattern with one midi note playing from host sequencer or keyboard?

Great for live or quick (re)arrangement of songs.

Agree, I will see if I can do this. It might be tricky as I am already using MIDI note info to control the Baseline Note, but perhaps there's a way around it, maybe using a different MIDI channel or something.

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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I thought I would give an update on where things stand with the new v2 version of the software - most of the new features I will include are coded, and now I am just wrestling with a few bugs and details, and then on to beta testing. I also have to fully update the docs. Here's the listing of what's coming in this version, as well as a few screenshots...

* new VST instrument hosting - route MIDI externally, or internally to virtual instruments (or mix of both)
* new A-B output
* LEDs to switches, for A, B, or A&B
* constrain output notes to specific scale
* output chord based on root note - user can specify up to 6 pitches in chord, plus root note
* can reverse direction to R to L, instead of L to R
* external load via MIDI or audio input
* MIDI CC control for virtually all UI controls

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I plan to demo this version at the upcoming Analogue Heaven Northeast event on April 25: http://stretta.com/ahne/2010/

Also - one little tidbit that made my day: for the 80's Industrial fans out there, cEvin Key of Skinny Puppy is a software Klee user (and hardware too) - see his quote at http://defectiverecords.com/klee/index2.html

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

last night I downloaded the demo and tried connecting the IAC outputs to LMSO (my outstanding microtonal retuner) and everything seems to work perfectly fine for some weird microtonal sequencing environment Very Happy so, I guess, I'll have to buy it (also because some money go back to electro-music.com) Wink
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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Excellent - you'll probably have fun with the "constrain to scale" function of the upcoming version too (it will be a free update for existing users)....

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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shagghie



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject: iPad port
Subject description: Only thing needed is a port to a multi-touch platform
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If you are able to port this to the iPad, you'll finally marry the best of both worlds...a tactile multitouch sequencer with the power/flexibility of software, on a cheap device that can be portable and/or mounted on a panel next to a modular, etc. Would recommend partnering with Line 6 to use their full MIDI hardware interface so that you could output from the Klee App to DIN MIDI. This is where everything is finally going..away from the mouse and untethered to our bulky towers and awkward laptops, and back to standalone musical devices. JUst looking at the Klee interface....it's PERFECT for an iPad port!!!


You might as well be the first to do this whole thing 'right' since you have the codebase, drive, following ,and interest of an entire community to springboard it into reality. Let me know how I can help...I know more than a few iPad OS developers....
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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, that would be cool, but the app is Max-based, so no iPad for now... But maybe if I brush up on my Objective C.....
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Or use RjDj maybe ... it uses PD it seems.
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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

rjdj is not a full fledged pD environment on the iPhone; rather, it's a preset program built with pD, that allows for user input to tweak specific parameters... so it's not like a full fledged app could be with it, at least not the last time I looked...
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah ok ... I didn't spend time on it, just saying what I heard .. too bad.
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TonE



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wouldn't it be better to keep the Klee sequencer MIDI only, rather than adding also Vsti hosting capabilities?

Maybe the fact that MaxMsp has an easy support for Vsti made you adding it? From my understanding Vsti host capabilities has really no big value for the sequencer itself, bringing only potential problems to the overall stability of the application. What do others think? I mean the MIDI clock sync is already there, so why inbuilt Vsti support?

On the other hand imo, any external midi control via CC or notes would be great: Usually any switch and toggle functions via notes and any range modification functions via CC. Presets could be called via program change events. Also preset storing should be possible via midi.

Is it possible to have a new version also without any Vsti support, for those who do not want to use them, but also do not want any extra unused risk in the application?
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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the feedback - up until now, one of the most requested features *has* been VSTi support, so I was just responding to that. I can also attest to a personal desire to have an "all in one" app, rather than having to fire up both the Klee as well as another sound generating app. Obviously, this is not relevant when dealing with external MIDI hardware.

You do bring up a valid point though, as I can't tell you how much effort has gone in to adding support for VSTi's, and in general making the app an audio-outputting one, in addition to MIDI-outputting. Although Max does make it easy to add VSTi support at a basic level, making it do so *elegantly* and like most other apps on the market is *not* easy.

Re: making a version without VSTi support, I will consider it, but doubt that it will be there at initial release.

Finally, for remote MIDI control - the vast majority of the functions are CC-controlled, with a few exceptions that are note-controlled. Almost all of the UI is MIDI "learnable" - click on the desired function in the UI, move your controller knob/slider/switch, and the app will learn to attach that controller to that UI element. Again, this is non-trivial when dealing with Max, at least to have it behave like most other apps that are out there...

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TonE



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How is the new chord feature?

Is it similar as it is here: http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=43914
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TonE



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dnigrin wrote:
Finally, for remote MIDI control - the vast majority of the functions are CC-controlled, with a few exceptions that are note-controlled.
Most importantly: It should be possible to save externally all those CC-mappings, to be able to import them later elsewhere. Ableton Live is bad here, which does not allow exactly this, meaning CC mappings are always fixed to the Live template/project file.

I would suggest even overlapping of such imports, any later imported mapping file should get higher priority, meaning any equal value mappings would be overwritten by the later one.
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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TonE wrote:
dnigrin wrote:
Finally, for remote MIDI control - the vast majority of the functions are CC-controlled, with a few exceptions that are note-controlled.
Most importantly: It should be possible to save externally all those CC-mappings, to be able to import them later elsewhere. Ableton Live is bad here, which does not allow exactly this, meaning CC mappings are always fixed to the Live template/project file.

That's how I've implemented it already - the mappings are saved as distinct CC map files, separate from preset files.
TonE wrote:
I would suggest even overlapping of such imports, any later imported mapping file should get higher priority, meaning any equal value mappings would be overwritten by the later one.

Good idea, but not in this version - maybe the next one! Smile

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fonik



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dnigrin wrote:
* new VST instrument hosting - route MIDI externally, or internally to virtual instruments (or mix of both)
* new A-B output
* LEDs to switches, for A, B, or A&B
* constrain output notes to specific scale
* output chord based on root note - user can specify up to 6 pitches in chord, plus root note
* can reverse direction to R to L, instead of L to R
* external load via MIDI or audio input
* MIDI CC control for virtually all UI controls

great. i'm looking forward to it!

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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Fonik!

Also I realize I missed this post:
TonE wrote:
How is the new chord feature?

Is it similar as it is here: http://www.sequencer.de/synthesizer/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=43914

That's pretty cool (and Max based too!), haven't seen that before. But it seems different than my approach; for mine, the Klee sequencer generates a "root" note, based on all the usual Klee parameters (and if you also use the new Scale function, it constrains those root notes to a specific scale). Then, it allows the end user to define up to 6 pitches (expressed in relative terms - e.g. 3, 5, -12) to make a chord with, relative to the root note. I believe this is the same way it's done in Ableton...

Dan

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TonE



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

"Intelligent transposing or processing" of previously recorded/playing notes based on new chord input makes the result quite interesting. I suppose you could use the same chord input processing library even for the Klee sequencer?

Just simple/stupid shifting/transposing of whole patterns sounds to me often too unmusical/uninteresting.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TonE wrote:
"Just simple/stupid shifting/transposing of whole patterns sounds to me often too unmusical/uninteresting.


Yes .. erm Laughing ... I mean I'm having an issue with that as well ... what works better for me is to have some preset scalings/quantizers to walk trough / select from.

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dnigrin



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's what I've done (it's not a simple pitchshifter). I'm using VJ Manzo's Modal Object Library:

http://www.vjmanzo.com/clients/vincemanzo/modal_change/

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