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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » YuSynth
clock divider questions
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dancelwerk



Joined: Aug 28, 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:33 am    Post subject: clock divider questions Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi to all, i finished my clock divider module, i have some questions about this module, perhaps are stupid questions, but someone have to do it Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

when you put a signal example a vclfo2, i connect in IN1, i can see the step divider 1 led lighting, but the not others leds, is it normal', or do i have to see the three leds lighting?

the divider 1 works fine, when i connect a step sequencer clock in to out1, but does not work if i connect the step sequencer (without change the IN1 to IN2,3) at out2 or out3

when i connect the vclfo2 for example to IN2,3, i have to change the cable from sequencer clock in to out2, and the led of divider 2 light but not the led 3, should it light too?

i have not wired the zener diodes, do i have to wire zener diodes?, i have 5.6 v zeners, are right?


thanks in advance

dancelwerk.
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kkissinger



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

According to the YuSynth site, the Zeners are optional.

Quote:
With the values shown on the schematics the logical ON level is 10V. If a 5V level is preferred, then use the optional zener diode Z1 (5.1V), the PCB is provided with pads for soldering the optional zener.


To answer your question, though -- the LEDs should work the same whether the zener is there or not.

Also, do you have the shunts connected on your panel jacks?

The tip from Clock In 1 should be connected to the shunt of Clock In 2.

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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger said it all !
All LEDs must lit (at their dividing ratio) when clocked from input #1, make yourself sure that you wire the jack sockets correctly and that the input one is also to the break lug of the second input socket.

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Yves
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dancelwerk



Joined: Aug 28, 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi boys, thanks for your fast answer, i will check you said, thanks again

dancelwerk
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dancelwerk



Joined: Aug 28, 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi again, i checked all the connections pcb and panel jacks and rotaries, and all is ok, now the divider led 3 is light was in bad contact, but only on the position in and 1/5, but doesnt work, the 1 and 2 works properly.

what should i have to check?, what voltages should i have to in divider 3 circuit?

thanks again

dancelwerk.
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dancelwerk wrote:
hi again, i checked all the connections pcb and panel jacks and rotaries, and all is ok, now the divider led 3 is light was in bad contact, but only on the position in and 1/5, but doesnt work, the 1 and 2 works properly.

what should i have to check?, what voltages should i have to in divider 3 circuit?

thanks again

dancelwerk.


Have you tried swapping the 4017 ?
Have checked thoroughly the PCB for solder bridges, short-cuts or track brakes ? Some of the track are quite thin and close to each other.

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Yves
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dancelwerk



Joined: Aug 28, 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Have you tried swapping the 4017 ?

yes i did

Have checked thoroughly the PCB for solder bridges, short-cuts or track brakes ? Some of the track are quite thin and close to each other.

ok i recheck all tracks again this week, i check carefull

thanks for the answers.

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kkissinger



Joined: Mar 28, 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I jumped into this today...

I recently purchased the PC Fab-in-a-box materials and since I'm already familiar with toner transfer methods from DecalPro I decided just to "go for it" and create a Yusynth Clock Divider PCB.

Well, everything went well. I had a couple of open traces to repair -- nothing major and as of now, all the parts are soldered into place except for the three 1.2 meg resistors and the three chips which are all on order now.

I'm really encouraged that I got such good results on my first try and look forward to having this clock divider on my modular synth -- I will get a lot of use out of it!


P2210010.JPG
 Description:
My Yusynth Clock Divider card
 Filesize:  1.6 MB
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P2210010.JPG



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dancelwerk



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi hey kkissinger your pcb looks very nice!!

some questions:

i using in C6 a 2.2nf polyester capacitor, i have too 1 nf, should i change to 1nf or use a medium value?

i had not 1.5k and 1.2M i created this values in paralell and series to get the values, is correct?

the rotaries are 4 positions 3 circuits, i change the ring to get 8 positions and use the A circuit do i have to create a bridge between A, B and C?

thanks


dancelwerk.
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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 1299
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dancelwerk wrote:
hi hey kkissinger your pcb looks very nice!!

some questions:

i using in C6 a 2.2nf polyester capacitor, i have too 1 nf, should i change to 1nf or use a medium value?

2.2n should work fine,1n even better !

dancelwerk wrote:
i had not 1.5k and 1.2M i created this values in paralell and series to get the values, is correct?

Yes

dancelwerk wrote:

the rotaries are 4 positions 3 circuits, i change the ring to get 8 positions and use the A circuit do i have to create a bridge between A, B and C?.

I've never tried. I don't think it would work as expected, you definitely need three 12x1 rotaries.

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Yves
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kkissinger



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Input Schmitt Triggers not working Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I powered up my Clock Divider board and it isn't working yet.

I checked over the board... found a couple of solder bridges, etc... everything looks ok now.

I'm not getting a signal from any of the input schmitt triggers.

My input is a square wave (zero to 10v). My scope shows that I'm supplying R4 with the square wave.

From R4, it shows the square wave but greatly attenuated -- perhaps just 1v. Is this correct? There is no output from the schmitt trigger at all.

I checked my diode and transistor polarities -- that seems to be ok.

Is such a low level normal? I'm starting to wonder if the diode (D1) is leaking or if my transistors are bad.

I'm looking forward to more troubleshooting this evening -- since I get the same result from all the schmitt triggers I suspect something systemic although the grounding, power supply, and polarities look good.

Incidentally, I am using 2N3904s and caught the polarity issue between them and the BC547c's. I had to reverse all the transistors (from they way they were on the picture above). Will this work with 3904s?

Any help/suggestions appreciated.

ref: http://yusynth.net/Modular/Commun/DIVIDER/ClockDivider-sch.gif

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yusynth



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Input Schmitt Triggers not working Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
My input is a square wave (zero to 10v). My scope shows that I'm supplying R4 with the square wave.

From R4, it shows the square wave but greatly attenuated -- perhaps just 1v. Is this correct? There is no output from the schmitt trigger at all.

This is pretty normal.

Quote:

I'm looking forward to more troubleshooting this evening -- since I get the same result from all the schmitt triggers I suspect something systemic although the grounding, power supply, and polarities look good.

Do you measure +15V(+/-5%) at the positive rails of the PCB ?

Quote:

Incidentally, I am using 2N3904s and caught the polarity issue between them and the BC547c's. I had to reverse all the transistors (from they way they were on the picture above). Will this work with 3904s?

Yes it will.

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kkissinger



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Input Schmitt Triggers not working Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yusynth wrote:
Do you measure +15V(+/-5%) at the positive rails of the PCB ?


This looked ok on the scope however I'll double check it when I get home.

Thank you for the quick reply.

I'll double check the voltage -- if there is some kind of fault (a bridge, etc) that is pulling down the rail voltage then, of course, nothing would work.

I will post an update -- either with some more questions or with an explanation of what I find.

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yusynth



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Input Schmitt Triggers not working Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
yusynth wrote:
Do you measure +15V(+/-5%) at the positive rails of the PCB ?


This looked ok on the scope however I'll double check it when I get home.

Thank you for the quick reply.

I'll double check the voltage -- if there is some kind of fault (a bridge, etc) that is pulling down the rail voltage then, of course, nothing would work.

I will post an update -- either with some more questions or with an explanation of what I find.


Be sure to check the two +15V power rails, basically test the voltages on the legs of the 22K resistors in the collector of the trannies of the Schmitt trigger

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kkissinger



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Input Schmitt Triggers not working Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yusynth wrote:
Be sure to check the two +15V power rails, basically test the voltages on the legs of the 22K resistors in the collector of the trannies of the Schmitt trigger


This turned out to be excellent advice. Once I determined that the rail voltages were ok, this narrowed things down to the transistor connections. Turns out that the culprit was a few cold solder joints.

I'm happy to report that my Yusynth Clock Dividers are up and running!

The "history" behind the cold joints is a chain of events:

1) originally soldered all the parts in place substituting 2N3904s for the BC547s.

2) prior to finishing the front panel, discovered that the 2N3904 pins are reversed from the BC547s.

3) Reversed all the 2N3904s. (my soldering tip was starting to wear out and this left some cold joints)

4) Powered up and nothing worked. Discovered some solder bridges and fixed them with great difficulty with my worn out solder tip.

5) Picked up a new soldering tip on the way home today.

6) Checked the voltages and discovered cold solder joints on the transistors.

7) Fixed!

Moral of the story: NEVER try to service a PCB with a worn-out solder tip. Also, I was personally fatigued -- so the combination of a bad solder tip and exhaustion didn't help.

The good news: I didn't fry any thing!

I'm really excited to have this module up and running. I was having to use my sequencer as a clock divider -- very clutzy and wasteful of resources. I'll make good use of the clock dividers for this weekend's streaming broadcast.

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yusynth



Joined: Nov 24, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great then !

Yes it was a big waste using a Q960 as a clock divider ! Enjoy this now working module.

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kkissinger



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you for all the help, Yves -- and, of course, thank you for your web site and all the great circuitry there.

After getting the Clock Dividers working, I moved on to the Boolean Logic board. I got it all together last night and (as usual) I need to troubleshoot my work.

My circuit boards are made from the PulsarProFX FAB-in-a-box material and I've found that if I overheat a pad I risk the pad separating from the board. So, I may be under-soldering a few places and leaving cold joints. Shouldn't be hard to remedy -- just getting used to working with home-made PCBs.

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yusynth



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

kkissinger wrote:
My circuit boards are made from the PulsarProFX FAB-in-a-box material and I've found that if I overheat a pad I risk the pad separating from the board. So, I may be under-soldering a few places and leaving cold joints. Shouldn't be hard to remedy -- just getting used to working with home-made PCBs.


This happens with PCB boards when they are overheated. Use a solder iron with a power that does not exceed 35 W, use good (I mean NOT ROHS) solder flux (60% tin).
Probably you could also use higher quality PCB boards (1.6 mm thick epoxy made with 35 microns copper clad)

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