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ElectroNotes 129 TZVCO PCB Layout
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Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

pdf ftw

i also use vector for pcb files


i used png instead of jpgs these days for other stuff
jpg leaves so many artifacts in comparison

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Sebo



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I alway measure the distance between IC pins before printing. If the distances
are wrong, I re-scale the graphic until they are right. Also I check If the
file is mirrored for p'n'p or not, and do the necessary changes.

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo wrote:
I alway measure the distance between IC pins before printing. If the distances
are wrong, I re-scale the graphic until they are right. Also I check If the
file is mirrored for p'n'p or not, and do the necessary changes.


Yes, but you shouldn't have to do that. When I first started my Soundlab project (which I still havent finished Embarassed ), I decided to make my own boards, but had utterly inconsistent results, because I came across the same problem outlined above. I just want these things to work. I think one of the problems was that some were printing from PC's where I use a Mac. I think times have moved on since then, but there was always this damn 72dpi vs 96dpi thing going on, which always resulted in wrong results.

One thing I wish people would do when publishing PCB layouts such as the one above, is to have a line on the board which is exactly 2.5cm (or 1 inch) long, so that images can be sized up against that line, using that length as a guide.

This is why, at the end of the day, I think it is best to go with Ian's Teezer and accompanying board, because all the proper R&D would have gone into it (Ian is a true visionary here on electro-music.com Cool )- plus you get none of this nonsense outlined above. You also know the thing's going to work properly! Wink Very Happy

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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sebo wrote:
I alway measure the distance between IC pins before printing. If the distances
are wrong, I re-scale the graphic until they are right. Also I check If the
file is mirrored for p'n'p or not, and do the necessary changes.


Same but for some reason I didn't on this one Sad

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forbin



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Synthmonger -- did you do it from the GIF file or the PDF? The one in the PDF was more there for the notes and I had expected people to use the GIF file. Sorry, I should have been more explicit in my notes and directions. When I do a press'n'peel I tend to use a graphics package and organize a number of different layouts on a page. This is always messy from a PDF so I favor a GIF or TIFF as the compression isn't lossy. Anyway I have generated another PDF directly from Altium with the ground plane pulled back which I will attach to this message.

v-un-v, i couldn't agree more about Ian Fritz's designs, very clever and he does put in a lot of work to make them robust. If you read the PDF in the first post I do include a direct link to the bridechamber page for the Teezer! I suppose this layout was more for people who were interested in Bernie Hutchins take on a TZVCO. Ian used to have quite a few articles in Electronotes as well. Another reason is, that for me personally, to have this PCB in my hand probably costs about $5 to $7 plus a fair amount of work. Buying the Teezer blank board + shipping it is about $50 to $60 in Australian Dollars (exchange rate is a lot better than when I started this). Part of the tyranny of living on the edge of the world...

I am not saying that the this in anyway an equal to the Teezer but it does allow people that are interested to get a different sounding VCO...

I noticed also that Ian has started experimenting with a "Ping Pong VCO" which with a few hacks this PCB would be ideal to also do some similar experimentation along those lines...


tzvco2.pdf
 Description:
Increased ground plane clearance...

Download
 Filename:  tzvco2.pdf
 Filesize:  135.94 KB
 Downloaded:  225 Time(s)

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synthmonger



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Guess I just overlooked things! Ah well no biggie. I'll post a build report as soon as I finish it.
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

forbin wrote:
Anyway I have generated another PDF directly from Altium with the ground plane pulled back which I will attach to this message.


altium eh?
i have stopped using it now as my student license expires next month and i won't be renewing it.

but am curious - how did you get it to print out the layout with the thru holes marked on the pads?
i never managed to work that out Embarassed and had to do it manually in photoshop Mad
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forbin



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

my favorite is to flip the board when i don't need to or forget to when I do need to! I have probably five or six boards with IC's on the copper side!
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bernie would approve Laughing
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forbin



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Andrew -- getting the printing right from Altium is a pain. The second PDF file here is printing directly to a PDF "printer" . The trick seems to be under "page setup" / "advanced" you need to make a print page with a "Bottom layer" & "Multi Layer" and make sure that the "holes" radio box is ticked. Not totally intuitive... I used to have a Gerber printer tool -- but that was even more convoluted...

I use Altium at work so I tend to do layouts at lunchtime rather than walk into town for food -- get's too expensive in Freo. I have tried quite a few other PCB tools and they all have idiosyncratic annoyances -- I suppose I have just got used to Altium! It has certainly improved over the last couple of years. I just wish the PCB tool would rubberband with components -- that is by far and away the biggest downside...
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andrewF



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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thats the way i do it
just had a quick look
why have i never noticed the 'holes' box before? Shocked

cheers
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

forbin wrote:
Another reason is, that for me personally, to have this PCB in my hand probably costs about $5 to $7 plus a fair amount of work. Buying the Teezer blank board + shipping it is about $50 to $60 in Australian Dollars (exchange rate is a lot better than when I started this). Part of the tyranny of living on the edge of the world...


Well this is it, and I must say that I'm in total agreement with you too. I haven't ordered a Bridechamber kit from the USA, because they are so damn expensive after import duty and so on. The pound is also not as strong as it used to be either. Someone needs to set up shop here in the UK, in Europe and in Australia and so on. Anyone for Phonosonics Mk2? Idea

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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elby-designs in australia
supurb dealer imo

modules + components kits and custom kits to order

his kits got me into it

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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Isn't Elby supposed to be a no-no on this forum?
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frijitz



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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

forbin wrote:
I noticed also that Ian has started experimenting with a "Ping Pong VCO" which with a few hacks this PCB would be ideal to also do some similar experimentation along those lines...

You might even want to consider building in a way to reverse the ramp from an external signal. Possibly an OR between the 4070 and the 4013, and a little differentiator/CMOS interface for the new input? This could be used for a kind of sync also.

Very Happy

Ian
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

andrewF wrote:
Bernie would approve Laughing


I just retired Bernie's method, a few weeks ago. I'd been using it since 1994. Smile It IS amazing though, how much faster boards assemble, NOT using Bernie's method. Surprised Smile (Parts preparation, always took so long.)
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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Isn't Elby supposed to be a no-no on this forum?


what is that in reference to?
i did a search and couldnt find anything negative

does bridechamber sponsor this forum and we are not allowed to talk about other kit suppliers

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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
andrewF wrote:
Bernie would approve Laughing


I just retired Bernie's method, a few weeks ago. I'd been using it since 1994. Smile It IS amazing though, how much faster boards assemble, NOT using Bernie's method. Surprised Smile (Parts preparation, always took so long.)


not having to drill etched pcbs is a dream ryk
what are you doing now?

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forbin



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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Ian -- i will try and do some tinkering with my prototype board and see what happens.

I think that Bridechamber and nearly all the suppliers of boards & parts do a great job for the Synth Community. I am sure that none of them are going to end up in the Bahamas on a yacht with what they make from all of us... It has more to do with your DIY ethic and how much spare cash you have to do some things and a lot to do with where you are and how easy it is to get bits.

I actually quite enjoy making the boards -- but then my wife often complains that while renovating the house I am quite happy to do everything from digging the footings and bricklaying to glazing the windows... I think her idea is to choose the paint colours and pay somebody else to do everything... probably leaves more time to actually enjoy it!
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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So when are the pcbs coming? Smile
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2thick4uni



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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Isn't Elby supposed to be a no-no on this forum?


Hi v-un-v, any chance you could enlighten us on why Elby is persona non grata here? I've built four of his projects - ASM2, Pixie, Monowave X and PolyDac and would be happy to join in discussions on them and help other builders where I can. Laurie always answers my emails very helpfully and I'm very pleased with his service.

I know Do*pfer is not welcome because some of his designs may have been "borrowed" from others without consent, however Elby modules which are designs by Oakley and Paul Maddox do seem to have the blessing of the original designers.
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

forbin wrote:
I think her idea is to choose the paint colours and pay somebody else to do everything... probably leaves more time to actually enjoy it!

Laughing

Same here! Laughing

"It's a woman's world"! Rolling Eyes Wink

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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

2thick4uni wrote:
Hi v-un-v, any chance you could enlighten us on why Elby is persona non grata here?


I'm sure his service is very good (and why shouldn't it be?), but if you read my post, it was I who was asking the question. Very Happy

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forbin



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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Your not thinking of EFM and Tom Gamble are you? He came in for a bit of criticism a few years ago... This is just what I have picked up from reading various posts scattered through the forum...
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't remember that well, but what I do remember was that someone was calling on the boycott of Elby, because he was publishing a circuit or circuits that weren't licensed.

electro-music.com is a big community, and while 99.999% of its members are honest and decent people, occasionally some bad apple rears its ugly head (or the maggot in the apple?). It's just a precaution to protect the integrity of the forum, as the last thing anyone wants is to be closed down. I also imagine that many great engineers like Ian would steer clear of a forum, if he or they felt that electro-music.com encouraged this kind of behaviour, and we really don't want that now, right? Very Happy

Some people had a problem with Elby, as they also had with Doepfer, but I don't know if that has been cleared up by now?

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