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Buchla 259 PCB size
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frenchyinmunich



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:54 am    Post subject: Buchla 259 PCB size Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello,

I am ... trying to build a 259.
Does someone here knows the exact size of the main board PCB?

Best regards,

F
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's 2 boards. And they're huge. Basicly the entire panel x 2.

Though 1 boards holds the pots and some other stuff (trimmers and some circuits).

I'll see if I can take some pictures tonight.

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

check
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frenchyinmunich



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:50 am    Post subject: Buchla 259 PCB size Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you both of of you,

Well, I would apreciate to get the size exact of the main board.
I mean, this one with the vactrol.

For, sure, if some of you could give me more picture of the control(poties and knobs board), why not a scan, it would be perfect. cheers cheers

All the best,

f
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1106
Location: Loss Angeles
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The 259 requires many trace cuts and other kludges in order to work- my tech explained this at some length. It's a big project, not a do-it-alone unless you are significantly skilled at electronics. I'm nowhere near able to do one myself.

A few photos which might help, but I don't have the dimensions:

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/mpeake/sale/

This one was sold a while ago, sorry.

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forbin



Joined: Jan 29, 2009
Posts: 115
Location: Fremantle, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There are also some Pictures of Mark Verbos making up a PCB from some blank boards on Flickr. See: http://www.flickr.com/photos/markverbos/414091774/

There are also high resolution TIFF files of the VCO PCB here:
http://www.synthfool.com/docs/Buchla/

I contemplated just trying to make the PCB's from the scans. I did a bit of work with Photoshop and got reasonable images that I could have used to make the PCB's -- unfortunately there are a few parts that are just not available for almost any price... so i decided to do an original PCB layout -- then apply fixes -- then change the parts to bits that I can get... So... I pulled them into the PCB tool, then using the original as the background and then started entering the schematic and trying to reverse out the entire thing. It is a LOT of work... It is very much on the back burner at the moment as I am just finishing another clone of a famous VCO and I have also done the MS50 VCF which I will post soon... It would be fun and just entering some of the schematics and searching for equivalent (well functionally anyway) parts has taught me a lot. I think if I did eventually come up with a more modern variant I would be tempted to loose the auto-tune as it makes the entire thing extremely complicated and layout a total nightmare...
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frenchyinmunich



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:48 am    Post subject: Buchla 259 PCB size Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello,

I started as well like you, with the kevin Lightner pictures.
Which component gave you troubles?
The parts which can be also to forget are the digital control as well.
I am curious to see the state of your work.

All the best,

f
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The LF13331 and the 2N3958 is hard to find.

I think everybody has at one point in their DIY career thought: Damn, I should clone the 259..

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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zthee wrote:
The LF13331 and the 2N3958 is hard to find.

..


Shitloads at utsource,so its not these parts that gonna stop us...
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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: oakland, ca
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
The LF13331


DG412? http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DG411-DG413.pdf
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 413
Location: Stockholm

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

topp wrote:
Quote:
The LF13331


DG412? http://datasheets.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/DG411-DG413.pdf


Totally agree. I mean, if you're gonna go through the hassle of designing a new PCB for it - why not use available parts?

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frenchyinmunich



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:07 am    Post subject: Buchla 259 size Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello,

Well, concerning the 2n3958, there is not any problem to get it.
I think that we should all together concentrate our energy to rebuilt one.

I started as well from the Kevin Hi res. pictures to built a board.
I need to know the original size to retouch the track precisily.

Teknik did a nice PCB for the waveshaper. I don't remember what he used,
but apparently, the "only" difficult component to find for the wave shaper would have been the 2n3958.

I think, that, I could reproduce the PCB and first, for exemple, mount the waveshaper section, exatcly with the Buchla component.
After this, try it with any other VCO. For exemple from my side, a Kobol.

Check the result, compare with result from people having here the original one, and go forward like that to another part of the circuit.

I don't say that's not difficult. from my side I never touched and see a real buchla. So, that's where my problem is.

All the best,

f
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: Buchla 259 size Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

frenchyinmunich wrote:
Hello,

I started as well from the Kevin Hi res. pictures to built a board.
I need to know the original size to retouch the track precisily.


f


Hey just import the pic of the pcb into illustrator re-scale it to an ic component and u have the exact dimesions of the pcb.

The wavemultiplier will work with any vco,but u need a proper (perfect) sine for best result,also u need the right level as the harmonics comes from a pre distorted signal,so depending of the distortion (level) the rest of the circuits behaves ,the manual timbre range will also be different,its identical like the serge wavemultipliers where i have put a pot at the input so i have precize control of the level so it match any sine level and is even more importand if u use mix in a second signal.
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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Totally agree. I mean, if you're gonna go through the hassle of designing a new PCB for it - why not use available parts?


not only that trouble, but also prototyping and testing Smile
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forbin



Joined: Jan 29, 2009
Posts: 115
Location: Fremantle, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah i also looked at the Analog Devices switches and using the That Corporation dual PNP/NPN for the AD8xx pairs -- the plan sort of was:
1) get the schematics right
2) get the PCB to sort of agree with the scans
3) remove the cruft
4) replace the hard to get bits
5) make PCB
6) debug
7) iterate on all of above...

There is an allure of the Buchla designs though-- they are very different from the Moog/Perlman/Rossum/et.el designs and probably hold some mystique... Who else would call a module "Source of Uncertainty"?

Having said all that I am probably only 10% of the way there and have been sidetracked down other avenues...
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 413
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Why not just draw the schematics in Eagle and then make the boards?

It'd be 3 double sided boards, 1 with the mod. osc. 1 with the principle osc. And 1 with the waveshaper + vca stuff. Board size 100mm x 160mm?

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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 885
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Peake wrote:
The 259 requires many trace cuts and other kludges in order to work


in other words, even w pcb, and parts, one does not have a 259 unfortunately.
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frenchyinmunich



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 105
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:11 am    Post subject: In other words Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello Ericco,

I think that the guy who had the most hard work was Buchla himself.

f
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1106
Location: Loss Angeles
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

forbin wrote:
I have also done the MS50 VCF which I will post soon...


Great! I have a CA3019 reserved for just such an emergency! Smile

All parts in the 259 are pretty readily available, excepting the AD281, which is easily replaced by the Linear Systems LS351. There was one other substitution as well, I forget the AD part number.

I'd really like the control/timbre and other sections from the 259 made into a project so that one might use any pair of oscillators of their choice...basically, a DIY PCB of the 259 minus the remote control and oscillators.

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"IC 741. Sometimes you don't want fidelity." -Small Bear Electronics Catalog
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forbin



Joined: Jan 29, 2009
Posts: 115
Location: Fremantle, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Peake

Sorry to disappoint... i engineered out the CA3019 -- couldn't get one! I used a That Corporation quad NPN instead (only really need 4 matched diodes doe the bridge) -- it has actually surprised me with how well it works!

Back to the 259 -- have you had any luck with Linear Systems? I have found that the shipping dwarfs the item cost by about x30 so as to make it not really a consideration... I think that you are right about the modulation/control/timbre aspects of the VCO -- as a "perfect" clone I'm not really sure it would be worth the effort but as for picking some of the more novel aspects of it for use in or with other VCO's it may be more useful. I am slowly expanding the bits I am simulating with LTSpice and I am now comfortable enough with its behaviour that I will use the results to go straight to a PCB -- well worth learning...
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Peake



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1106
Location: Loss Angeles
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LS have distributors who are not that expensive, so far as I know...they also have a dual trannie to sub out the 2N3958, which is also used in the Buchla 291 dual BPF (and which is supposed to have a pretty high HFE to avoid distorting). LS have substitutes for many unobtainable parts...

Again, a modernized 259 would be nice, especially without those troubling components...but you have to love its sound. Definitely smaller-sounding than the preceding 100 and 200 dual oscillators...which is why I'd love to be able to use the 259 control/timbre section with oscillators such as that. Even people who prefer amazingly accurate oscillators would find a vast array of possibilities in such a configuration. AM is a rather under-rated process...very useful for generating musically accurate/tracking overtones, as opposed to ring modulation. You can do nice electric piano tines that way, etc.

EricC...seems that way. Luckily, there are a few highly qualified Buchla techs who are experienced in this matter.

No CA3019? Hnf! Wink I like the THAT chips, good choice! Looking forward to your board/artwork!

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"IC 741. Sometimes you don't want fidelity." -Small Bear Electronics Catalog
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dar303



Joined: Jul 15, 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I did this mod to a couple of 259's, has been working perfecly for 4-5 yr.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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phdinfunk



Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: 259 Autotune
Subject description: How does that work?
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I'm curious, I have no idea.... is it some kind of P.I.D. loop on an IC or something? I'm just sitting here trying to think of how an "autotune" system could work..... is it dependent on the 300 series computer system to make it happen?
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the autotune function on the 259 is indeed a function for the module to be used with another system,on itself on the module its useless
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
check


Nothing to check in this post,

In fact when a post is old enough some information get deleted by moderators,its happening in plenty of topics i discovered.

Crazy,so they log what they thing they should delete,then wait some time and then edit all those posts. WTF?
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