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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Jürgen Haible designs
Physical Modelling Module - VTL5C3/2 ?
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jhaible



Joined: May 25, 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject: Physical Modelling Module - VTL5C3/2 ? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I know I'm a bit lazy / distracted by other things lately, and you're surely waiting for several PCBs I have already announced ...

But anyway: here's another thing I've started some months ago.
It goes bck to my Analogue Physical Modelling experiments:
http://www.jhaible.de/jh_ana_phys_mod.html

Back then, I've made these samples with the Storm Tide Flanger, a Buchla Low Pass Gate clone, an EMS-like Trapezoid generator and a Diode Waveshaper.

I didn't write down any settings, not even the complete signal path, and I've never been able to reproduce these sounds. And 1V/Oct tracking of the BBD clock ist difficult, because of the high clock rate.

But here's an idea: Put to gether all the necessary components on a single 160mm x 100mm sized PCB:

(1) a low voltage BBD (easily available, noise isn't an issue here)
(2) a PLL to derive the BBD clock from ...
(3) a single "Living VCO" core
(4) a diode waveshaper
(5) a simple AR envelope generator
(6) two low pass gates (one set as filter, one set as VCA)

The design is half-finished. Question: Is there any interest in something like that? Are VTL5C3/2 vactrols easily available still?

http://www.jhaible.de/physmod/physmod_preview.jpg

JH.

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The Bad Producer



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That sounds really great, very interesting!

I must admit the 'wait' you allude to has allowed me to catch up on my backlog of boards I've bought from you, and actually use them to make music!

The samples you have posted are quite remarkable, and I would surely be interested in the usual 4 boards... VTL5C3/2 vactrols are available fairly easily all over the world from many sources.

I assume, as with your other projects, that the build could be pretty open-ended, I can imagine this with a fairly 'scientific' looking panel, with each section (PLL, VCA, Waveshaper) available for patching enabling lots of experimentation with physical modelling... Or would you suggest lots of 'normalling' to achieve a standard signal path?

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The Peasant



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would definitely be interested in at least one.

Take care,
Doug

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Bad Producer wrote:
That sounds really great, very interesting!

I must admit the 'wait' you allude to has allowed me to catch up on my backlog of boards I've bought from you, and actually use them to make music!

The samples you have posted are quite remarkable, and I would surely be interested in the usual 4 boards... VTL5C3/2 vactrols are available fairly easily all over the world from many sources.

I assume, as with your other projects, that the build could be pretty open-ended, I can imagine this with a fairly 'scientific' looking panel, with each section (PLL, VCA, Waveshaper) available for patching enabling lots of experimentation with physical modelling... Or would you suggest lots of 'normalling' to achieve a standard signal path?


I'll keep the board rather "open", to allow the use of the separate functions as building-blocks. Sort of (tiny) "modular on a PCB".

Most of the potentiometers can either be trimpots or real potentiometers. Took me a while to see the benefit of a "mixed footprint" here. - I'll probably build my prototype with trimpots and make connections with alligator clips, and if I happen to get a single acoustic-like sound out of it, I'll make a batch of PCBs and see what huge front panels with lots of controls you all come up with, and what range of sounds you'll get out of it. Smile

JH.

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Luka



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds good
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyhow..
Last edited by TekniK on Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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janvanvolt



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

same here... i'd take one PCB Smile
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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nifty, i'd be in for 4.

in the US, VTL5C3/2 are available from Allied, looks like they have plenty in stock.

b

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wmonk



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here the VTL5C3/2 are 6 euros, and for such a project, that is no problem!
I'm interested in one board. Smile

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glacial23



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think I'm interested in getting one of these.
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guitarfool



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Of course I'd be interested in 2 or 3.

The VTL5C3/2 is also available from Smallbear at 6 USD each.
I still have a small stockpile of them myself from years ago.
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JH, Please see this thread:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-36165-275.html

for a modular development project that I've been working on for some months. It is a lot like what you're doing. Maybe we should collaborate a little bit and share experiences. I plan to do other similar boards as well.

Les

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
JH, Please see this thread:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-36165-275.html

for a modular development project that I've been working on for some months. It is a lot like what you're doing. Maybe we should collaborate a little bit and share experiences. I plan to do other similar boards as well.

Les


I looked at the schemos - it's a direct clocked BBD with HF VCO, right?
What I'm going to try is replacing this with a PLL setup. To what outcome, I cannot predict. I hope it will give an improovement in tracking - that's why I want to try it.

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
I looked at the schemos - it's a direct clocked BBD with HF VCO, right?
What I'm going to try is replacing this with a PLL setup. To what outcome, I cannot predict. I hope it will give an improovement in tracking - that's why I want to try it.

JH.


OK, well yes you are correct. What you are doing is different. I guess I am thinking more generally here. I see a new category of modular synthesizer modules opening up, and these are the first few steps in that category. I thought it might be useful to share notes...

Les

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:


OK, well yes you are correct. What you are doing is different. I guess I am thinking more generally here. I see a new category of modular synthesizer modules opening up, and these are the first few steps in that category. I thought it might be useful to share notes...

Les


I always love to talk, but as I see it, your board is already finshed, and mine is almost ...

JH.

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"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours." (Mk 11,23f)
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Stream Operator


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:
I always love to talk, but as I see it, your board is already finshed, and mine is almost ...

JH.


Well cool, you are a lot faster than me. I have to wait like months just to buy parts for a few modules, sigh. Well anyway let me know if you want to discuss the future modules.

Les

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Funky40



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Physical Modelling Module - VTL5C3/2 ? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jhaible wrote:


But here's an idea: Put to gether all the necessary components on a single 160mm x 100mm sized PCB:

(1) a low voltage BBD (easily available, noise isn't an issue here)
(2) a PLL to derive the BBD clock from ...
(3) a single "Living VCO" core
(4) a diode waveshaper
(5) a simple AR envelope generator
(6) two low pass gates (one set as filter, one set as VCA)

JH.

so much things on one little board ?
i like to have best circuitry on a "integrated" physical modelling module.
No compromises ! If you can handle this on one PCB: wonderful !

The better the 1V/oct tracking is, the better !
i prefer a complex circuit much more than a simple one even if the win is not that much
my wish would be the superduper phisical modelling module. the NO-compromise solution.
please !
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jhaible



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: Physical Modelling Module - VTL5C3/2 ? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:
jhaible wrote:


But here's an idea: Put to gether all the necessary components on a single 160mm x 100mm sized PCB:

(1) a low voltage BBD (easily available, noise isn't an issue here)
(2) a PLL to derive the BBD clock from ...
(3) a single "Living VCO" core
(4) a diode waveshaper
(5) a simple AR envelope generator
(6) two low pass gates (one set as filter, one set as VCA)

JH.

so much things on one little board ?
i like to have best circuitry on a "integrated" physical modelling module.
No compromises ! If you can handle this on one PCB: wonderful !


Well, you saw the picture:
http://www.jhaible.de/physmod/physmod_preview.jpg

No compromise here. It contains, for instance, the whole diode waveshaper that I've used for these old samples on my web site:
http://www.jhaible.de/jh_shaper_B.pdf
plus voltage control via transistor pairs (3046) instead of OTAs.

And even though the Living VCO core is just used as a source for the PLL to track the BBD clock, I left the whole PWM stuff in there, too, so you can use it as an ordinary VCO as well.

JH.

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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure, Juergen, twist my arm. I'll take one!
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2thick4uni



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm in for one pcb..........
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loydb



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In for one or two.
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ach_gott



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm in for two! Cool
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mono-poly



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is really nice Juergen.
Would also be nice to have it in a small single unit!
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

add another one to the list for me too please Smile
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decaying.sine



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

interested in 1 board.
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