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VCS 3 / Synthi AKS inspired synth DIY
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What is it with these bloody filters eh?? What's wrong with a good old Trapezoid? Razz
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If I were to redesign the VCS3, I'd drop the existing Oscillator, and have 3 Teezers instead. Then that really stupid panel meter would have to go (does the meter indicate how much petrol is left in the thing?), and replaced by a comb filter. But then people would argue that it would no longer have the essence of a real synthi, whatever a 'real synthi' is!


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gwaidan



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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:


gwaidan wrote:

Seriously, I think the rest of suitandtieguy's post is beyond contention-at this point RW is not much better than that guy who owned the Moog trademark in the UK and for 10 years did nothing but stop Brits from buying Moog-branded gear...if Derek is willing to help people own VCS3s then the sensible thing would have been for Robin to try and harness that enthusiasm.


Like I said, there is nothing I, or electro-music.com can do, to stop Derek from selling his PCB's. Am I making myself clear? Wink

We, and I am speaking for electro-music.com, will not support a section on this forum, dedicated to building a custom DIY VCS3.

Cat Fish?

Very Happy


Sorry-wasn't having a go at the forum-just at Robin's unwillingness to run a business that lots of people want to patronise....
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adambee7



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PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Peake wrote:
And God forbid anyone actually liking the sounds coming out of one of these pieces,


Mr Peake, and Mr Suit Dude,

I think, the problem is, that you yanks never had to hide behind the sofa during an episode of Dr Who, or were woken in the morning to the charms of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop doing its thing with the local news bulletins. Nor were you a part of Europe, where a Moog was a relatively expensive device that only the very rich could afford (Keith Emerson springs to mind). The VCS3 was made famous by Pink Floyd and Brian Eno (despite them also owning Minimoogs). Hawkwind and Gong also played a large part in the Anglo-French psyche, both whom, used VCS3's or AKS'. Don't even mention Jean Michel Jarre, who had six of the things when he played live in China!

Can I remind you that the Minimoog, was then a 'budget synth' too? One is on eBay right now for £7000 'buy it now'. The new Voyager- much loved by many American, is vastly overrated, especially when the same amount of lolly, can also buy you a Clavia G2!!



Exactly why i want one. Special fx machine. Klaus Schulze still uses one for this purpose. But I'm thinking of Building a putney look a like but with those lovely Living VCOs by JH and do my first filter and envelope designs . Oh yeah and a reverb tank. Razz Very Happy Very Happy
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

adambee7 wrote:
I'm thinking of Building a putney look a like


That's the spirit! Very Happy

Remember, it's not necessarily the sound of the Putney, more the look!

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Peake



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Peake wrote:
And God forbid anyone actually liking the sounds coming out of one of these pieces,


Mr Peake, and Mr Suit Dude,

I think, the problem is, that you yanks never had to hide behind the sofa during an episode of Dr Who, or were woken in the morning to the charms of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop doing its thing with the local news bulletins. Nor were you a part of Europe, where a Moog was a relatively expensive device that only the very rich could afford (Keith Emerson springs to mind). The VCS3 was made famous by Pink Floyd and Brian Eno (despite them also owning Minimoogs). Hawkwind and Gong also played a large part in the Anglo-French psyche, both whom, used VCS3's or AKS'. Don't even mention Jean Michel Jarre, who had six of the things when he played live in China!

Can I remind you that the Minimoog, was then a 'budget synth' too? One is on eBay right now for £7000 'buy it now'. The new Voyager- much loved by many American, is vastly overrated, especially when the same amount of lolly, can also buy you a Clavia G2!!


I've been a "hiding behind the sofa" level fan of Dr. Who since just after John Pertwee left...or is that too much Geekinfo? Laughing Always loved the early Baker-era title music, the later version not as much...I've just always gone after the particular sounds which caught my attention and made me want to use the machine from which they originated...no matter the price, lineage, engineering or utter lack thereof, or social opinion...always and only what curls my toes back, that's the music part.

Sooo many have made excellent use of this machine, including Froese/TD, and many more. I've had the pleasure of having owned three or four of them across the three decades in which I've been involved in EM...each had different quirks, and all were amazing. I've had the pleasure of standing next to (but not using) a Synthi 100. And many other instruments of the day, and afterward. Specs be damned, the thing is amazing, produces incredible FX for such a seemingly simple set of modules...and still, nothing sounds like it. The filter is not the most important thing. The oscillators and tone-shaping of the subsequent modules are. Shrug...

Nord Modular....no thanks. Very nice, but doesn't curl back my toes quite as much.

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radek tymecki



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

when i was in Paris i had privillage to visit JMJ's studio sth bout half year before new oxygene tour. i was there to take some informations about rhytmicomputer that michel geiss built for him. i had chance to mess with famous EMS wall known from China. Here are some pictures

http://www.jeanmicheljarre.pl/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=175&Itemid=57
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TekniK



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

radek tymecki wrote:
when i was in Paris i had privillage to visit JMJ's studio sth bout half year before new oxygene tour. i was there to take some informations about rhytmicomputer that michel geiss built for him. i had chance to mess with famous EMS wall known from China. Here are some pictures

http://www.jeanmicheljarre.pl/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=175&Itemid=57


hmm,know i see whats the 'box',he did use the casing of an old german mixer.
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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

radek tymecki wrote:
when i was in Paris i had privillage to visit JMJ's studio sth bout half year before new oxygene tour. i was there to take some informations about rhytmicomputer that michel geiss built for him. i had chance to mess with famous EMS wall known from China. Here are some pictures

http://www.jeanmicheljarre.pl/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=175&Itemid=57


404 Sad

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

LektroiD wrote:
http://www.jeanmicheljarre.pl/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=175&Itemid=57 <- 404 Sad


Link works ok here.

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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

modulator_esp wrote:
it appears the Hi-Fli is being re-released under license

http://www.synthi.co.uk/hifli.html

According to that site, they're only making 15 of them, all of which have already been reserved, and they've finished only 2 of them so far.
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emdot_ambient



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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

adambee7 wrote:
Exactly why i want one. Special fx machine. Klaus Schulze still uses one for this purpose.

It's interesting, I've seen AKS's in a lot of videos from musicians from "back then" and almost all of them who are still performing are still using them. I've seen them still used in Pink Floyd concerts, Klaus Schulze, Tim Blake/Hawkwind, and in the recent JMJ tours. Almost all of them (PF the only exception) appear to use them almost exclusively for SFX. JMJ had several of them for the Oxygene tour where he used the old vintage gear, each was preset to do one kind of SFX. Schulze has almost always used his only for SFX...just re-read an interview from him back in 1976 in which he said just that. Tim Blake's signature strange sounds always came from them.

What makes them good for that is their compact physical form and their very basic modules: 3 VCO, Noise Generator, two Input Amplifiers, Ring Modulator, VCF, Trapezoid Envelope Generator, Joy-Stick Controller, Voltage Controlled Spring Reverb unit and two Stereo Output Amplifiers.

So for SFX its character probably comes mostly from its user interface, trapezoid EG, RM and VC reverb. It's a great little package, but for me I think it would be pretty simple to put together something comparable as far as capability goes and not trying to make it a clone in any sense.
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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
LektroiD wrote:
http://www.jeanmicheljarre.pl/forums.html?option=com_content&task=view&id=175&Itemid=57 <- 404 Sad


Link works ok here.


Odd, works now.. Must have been a blip

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have come to the conclusions, that the reason the vcs3 gets so much hype, is not only by the amount of now-famous musicians who have used it (Eno, Pink Floyd, TD, KS, BBC Radiophonic workshop etc etc etc), but the fact that there are so many cult pictures of those people say next to the thing, with it's "physics lab" look, then added to that it is rare and very expensive, makes it a highly desirable 'SFX' "instrument". Even chatting about it here is bumping up that elusiveness!

Why not just make a 'vcs3' of of circuits by Nicholas3141? They're all rather quirky, and would work well with a DIY pin matrix! Idea

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-38087.html

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adambee7



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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

good idea but i personaly would use minijacks instead of the matrix. just my preference Very Happy Very Happy
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

adambee7 wrote:
good idea but i personaly would use minijacks instead of the matrix. just my preference Very Happy Very Happy


v-un-v wrote:
Why not just make a 'vcs3' of of circuits by Nicholas3141? They're all rather quirky, and would work well with a DIY pin matrix! Idea

http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-38087.html


I propose, taking both of your above mentions, along with the idea recently posted visually, by another chap - of making the matrix out of the 2 pin jumper sockets for each point on the matrix. (Then using heatshrink around the resistor, with it's leg bent over - to form the 'jumper' to plug in.)

Your ending result would be a "Lunetta VCS3". Smile VERY low cost on parts and just as, if not more, quirky. Smile
Total cost could probably end up under, $100. Very Happy
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

BRILLIANT! Very Happy

Lets us then design the electro-music Lunetta VCS3!

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adambee7



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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bloody right on. Exclamation Exclamation Very Happy Very Happy
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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting, I was just speaking to Derek in private about the kit, in response to the costing of rare parts. It is way more expensive than I can budget for a DIY project.

My last PM response:
Quote:
Seems like a very expensive project (a lot more than I'd anticipated anyway). I'm wondering if there are equivalents that would work in their place? I'd probably be more interested in a modified design to keep the cost down. The whole reason I do SDIY is because I can't afford for example, a Moog 55, or Buchla 200 system, and albeit, a VCS3. Yet I can build twice the synth for a fraction of the price.

I imagine the VCS3 can be easily cloned and modified (with extra features), which accommodates cheaper, more accessible components which will work just as well (and going by my experiences, in a lot of cases better).

It might be worth seeing how that would go down in the forum; to make an affordable synth 'based-on' the VCS3 circuits, rather than a faithful duplicate which is evidently a very costly project. At the same time it would avoid any potential copyright infringements too.

Seems it's unanimous here. Let's get on it!

PS. I agree with v-un-v; we can do without the fuel gauge.

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Last edited by LektroiD on Sat May 08, 2010 11:18 pm; edited 2 times in total
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ericcoleridge



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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

But, supposing someone did want to make a clone-like synthi, where would you get the patch-matrix. Ghillmetti apparently make one, but I've never read anywhere how much they actually sell for, or where they're sold. Does anyone know?

Also, are the EMS knobs still available anywhere? I remember that Analogue Systems used to have several colors for sale, but not sure if they still do.
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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ericcoleridge wrote:
But, supposing someone did want to make a clone-like synthi, where would you get the patch-matrix. Ghillmetti apparently make one, but I've never read anywhere how much they actually sell for, or where they're sold. Does anyone know?

Also, are the EMS knobs still available anywhere? I remember that Analogue Systems used to have several colors for sale, but not sure if they still do.


You clearly missed the previous page.. here's the link:
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-294044.html#294044

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frequencycentral



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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I few years ago I built a synth to be functionally similar to a certain group of sounds I can get out of my Synthi. Certainly it can't do every nuance of a Synthi, but I designed it for live use, just to get a range of spacey sound effects in a small package. It's based on a couple of oscilliators from the LM13700 data sheet, a simple dual opamp LFO, 3080 vca, simple quad opamp AR gen which I brewed myself, built onto a 100mm x 160mm piece of perf and sounds like this:

http://www.aronnelson.com/DIYFiles/up/Dalek_s_Handbag.mp3

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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adambee7



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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's a lovely little synth. Love the panel. Very Happy Very Happy
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great looking and a wonderful range of sounds from such a small and simple device!
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh YES! The spirit of building a soundlab is all coming back to me! Lovely simple design- bustin' sounds too! Very Happy

One thing that was unique to the synthi, was that each function that out-putted sound, had a level control- which then patched into the pin-matrix. In this case, connection could be done using banana cables/sockets, as these can be stacked (but I guess you loose any chance of normalisation or buffering?)

I started designing a pin matrix board in Solidworks to house 2.5mm jack sockets- but like usual, something else came along at the time Rolling Eyes

It could easily be resurrected. There's a good shop just down the Coventry road that deals in Acetal modelling- but there would be an awful lot of wiring involved. Sad

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