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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Jamming with Lunetta's (I'll gate yours if you'll gate mine)
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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:34 pm    Post subject: Jamming with Lunetta's (I'll gate yours if you'll gate mine) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

After the Lunetta Breadboarding Workshop Inventor (and little me) will be conducting at EM2010, we have applied for stage time to do a jam/performance with the workshop attendants.

So we expect to have multiple players with a freshly breadboarded Lunetta.
Can you imagine the racket of six or more Lunetta's playing simultaneously? Aargh...

So here's a plan I have:

Rules of the game:

1 Each player will have at least one input and output from another Lunetta
2 Each player will share a maximum of 2 in and outputs
3 One of the Lunetta's will be assigned to Left channel, one to Right channel
4 All Lunetta's will be put on a table, connections will be made in advance
5 To get a random start pots will NOT be pre tweaked
6 A 30 minute performance will be divided in 5 minute sections
7 There will be a "Master of Ceremony" to keep time

Timer on: Let the show begin!

Section 1: the builder/players will all adjust their pots simultaneously
Section 2: The players leave the stage to enjoy the performance
Section 3: The audience is invited to tweak the pots for 5 minutes
section 4: Another 5 minutes of pattern development
Section 5: More volunteers can tweek the pots
Section 6: Let's hear what we've got now

Next, we can do what we want until the Stage Moderator janks down the faders and kicks us off stage.
We pick up the table and clear the floor.
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I shore hope this gets to video(s) as well as 'released'! What a phenominal sounding idea! Surprised Surprised
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds great Mathe, some suggestions:

if we are to send sounds from lunetta to lunetta then the schematic designs must accomodate this. Also it adds $3.50 to the budget or so for connectors and cables, and we are already over budget slightly. I suggest that I just build a simple 8-input mixer and take input from separate Lunettas.

Audience tweaking of pots is not very practical IMHO, because of the logistics and the participants will be amateur performers anyway. 30 minutes will go by quickly so there isn't much time for changing places.

I propose we do something similar, giving each participant a few minutes of solo performance and then a 10 minute simultaneous jam at the end. Comments?

Les

p.s. sorry Mathe, not being critical just practical.

p.p.s. I share your enthusiasm Rich!

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Inventor wrote:
Sounds great Mathe, some suggestions:

if we are to send sounds from lunetta to lunetta then the schematic designs must accomodate this. Also it adds $3.50 to the budget or so for connectors and cables, and we are already over budget slightly. I suggest that I just build a simple 8-input mixer and take input from separate Lunettas.

Audience tweaking of pots is not very practical IMHO, because of the logistics and the participants will be amateur performers anyway. 30 minutes will go by quickly so there isn't much time for changing places.

I propose we do something similar, giving each participant a few minutes of solo performance and then a 10 minute simultaneous jam at the end. Comments?

Les

p.s. sorry Mathe, not being critical just practical.

p.p.s. I share your enthusiasm Rich!


How about if the participants, provide a means of interconnecting with each other's units, for the 'final jam'? Each of them (as many as possible) modifying / modulating each other would be absutively INCREDIBLE! Something of an 'organized anarchy'. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
How about if the participants, provide a means of interconnecting with each other's units, for the 'final jam'? Each of them (as many as possible) modifying / modulating each other would be absutively INCREDIBLE! Something of an 'organized anarchy'. Very Happy


Well, good news, Jan pointed out in chat that we don't need 1/8" jacks and cables between the lunettas, we can connect them with only wires on the breadboards. So we can do what Mathe suggests!

Les

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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, read back on the first post dudes.

Rykhaard wrote:
How about if the participants, provide a means of interconnecting with each other's units, for the 'final jam'? Each of them (as many as possible) modifying / modulating each other would be absutively INCREDIBLE! Something of an 'organized anarchy'. Very Happy


This is EXACTLY the idea.

Inventor wrote:
If we are to send sounds from lunetta to lunetta then the schematic designs must accomodate this.


We do NOT send sounds, just Lunetta oscillations are plugged into someone else's breadboard. Only wires and free breadboard holes are needed.

Inventor wrote:
Audience tweaking of pots is not very practical IMHO, because of the logistics and the participants will be amateur performers anyway. 30 minutes will go by quickly so there isn't much time for changing places.


1 Most audience are proficient, or at least tasteful musicians
2 some builders might not be performers or seasoned musicians
3 Ok, timing is strict, we could do two tweek and listen rounds instead of three
4 enjoying Lunetta's is as much playing them as it is listening to them

It'll be a laugh, won't it?
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, well let's try to include some audience participation then. We'll just call for volunteers at the beginning of the set. I don't know why I didn't think of wires at first, duh!

Les

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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Reading back on my post I realize, apparently I have not made clear enough I mean in-outs at IC level, not audio. But that's clarified now I guess.
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droffset



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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds awesome.
Remember to connect all the grounds together somehow.
I understood the intended connections to be IC level data/logic as well.
If everyone's machines are more or less breadboard sized it'll be easy to fit it all at a table.

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Edit: Spelling mistakes.
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PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

droffset wrote:
Sounds awesome.
Remember to connect all the grounds together somehow.
I understood the intended connections to be IC level data/logic as well.
If everyone's machines are more or less breadboard sized it'll be easy to fit it all at a table.


yes, we will all be sitting at a table as per last year. The output signals of the various Lunettas will be connected to a homebrew mixer that I will build, so the grounds will get connected through the mixer in star configuration, so that's all good. Thanks for the heads-up!

Les

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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually with this setup only two Lunetta's would be sending audio out to the PA mixer. One panned left, one panned right.

Would this favour those two Lunetta's to be heard more than the other player's? I think not.

Let's assume six players as an example, called A,B,C, etc. .

I've made a drawing with each Lunetta sending and recieving just one signal , just randomly assigned.
Now I can analize what might happen.


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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll discuss this in terms of dominance and power. What would be the best position to get your Lunetta heard?

I made up random connections without realizing the consequences, but could A dominate the sound? Sure.


But A will have to incorporate it's input from C.
It depends on what C sends to what point in A. In the most simple case C sends an unaltered signal directly from an oscillator. But C may be sending pulses that have already been treated.

If such a signal arrives at the R/2R DAC C will have direct acces to the sound output. If it arrives into a gate input, A will be gating C and C will be gating A.
If C plugs into some A "master" clock input, C would be able to clock any events A would like to come up with. (Well, in that case A would officially have to remove his/her own clock signal. But I've just crudely "piggybacked" two clocks into one input without breaking anything yet)
Depending on connections and their own setups, A and B could be under vast contol of C and D.

Would E and F be in a position of less power? It seems they would be. But then, turning just ANY ONE potmeter from ANY Lunetta could also change the pattern completely.
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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

electri-fire wrote:
But then, turning just ANY ONE potmeter from ANY Lunetta could also change the pattern completely.


So having six people tweek the pots simultaneously may be too much. It could be interesting to have just one person on stage, tweeking one pot at a time.

At any rate, boys and girls (sorry Rich Wink ) , I'm eager to try some of this stuff out during the workshop and find the best method.
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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

droffset wrote:
Remember to connect all the grounds together somehow.


Yep, all Lunetta's need common ground.
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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

electri-fire wrote:
Actually with this setup only two Lunetta's would be sending audio out to the PA mixer. One panned left, one panned right.


But that need not be the case, we can plug ALL Lunetta's into the mixer and pan them. I expect all sound and patterns to be somehow related. Gonna be an awsome stereo spread.
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

electri-fire wrote:
electri-fire wrote:
But then, turning just ANY ONE potmeter from ANY Lunetta could also change the pattern completely.


So having six people tweek the pots simultaneously may be too much. It could be interesting to have just one person on stage, tweeking one pot at a time.

At any rate, boys and girls (sorry Rich Wink ) , I'm eager to try some of this stuff out during the workshop and find the best method.


Were that (sorry Rich Wink ) referring to the greeting I said in a recent video? (Boys and girl) ? Laughing If so - there may be more than 1 female, but I've only knowingly seen one - hence my reference. Wink

What, the theoretical A to F are sending and receiving to each other, should be ok, as each one of them don't necessarily have to reply on the previous, to give them something to work with - in order to make sound. The previous could be joined with the current in a summing situation, so that the current still has output. The previous would just add to, or modify.

I think XORing the previous with the current, could be quite fun. Smile (I'll possibly have a small XOR 'surprise' coming out soon. Just have to get the circuit completed and then I'll 'show it off'. Laughing
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electri-fire



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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
Were that (sorry Rich Wink ) referring to the greeting I said in a recent video? (Boys and girl) ? Laughing If so - there may be more than 1 female, but I've only knowingly seen one - hence my reference. Wink


I hadn't noticed you said girl instead of girlS actually, so I quoted you wrongly. Also I remember you saying in one of your video's you shouldn't say "at any rate" anymore, so I was saying it in your place. Just a bit of fun.
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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nyuck Nyuck, wise guy eh? Woob woob woob!
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I thought of another idea for the jam this morning - a stereo XOR mixer. This would be simply XOR gates connected together to form a pair of four-input XORs, one on the left channel and one on the right. Each board would connect ground and a signal into one of the XOR gates. The XOR inputs would have pull-up resistors so unused inputs would not float, and the output would be a pair of mono 1/4" jacks.

I feel that this approach is worth considering because it would give each Lunetta board an equal share of the output signal. What do you think of this alternative?

Les

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