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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » iOS - iPad/Phone/Pod etc
NLog Pro for iPad (new version)
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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:12 am    Post subject: NLog Pro for iPad (new version) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The newest version of NLog Pro is superb. It's a must get. This is going to be one of my faves, if not my fave.

You can control it from a MIDI controller via the Line6 Midi interface. I haven't tried that yet though.

It's a first rate implementation. It's a deluxe 4 osc fixed architecture synth but very flexible because of the very flexible mod routing. The built in effects are quite good - very well thought out - playable.

It's a major step up from the NLog Synth.

It's not a trivial sound generator; not a toy. But, it's loads of fun.

There are a few very tiny problems with it, but it doesn't glitch. The knobs are very smooth and easy to control, once you get used to it.

I highly recommend this one. I'm excited. This takes the iDevices up a level. My dream of an all iDevice kit is coming closer to reality.

Heavy duty.

UPDATE: Oct 16, 2010 - I don't recommend this anymore. See below.
UPDATE: Nov 16, 2010 - Disregard previous update. See below. doh


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does it run on the iPhone? I have NLog to compare... which you say isn't like as good, eh.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Not sure about the iPhone. Lemme check.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

There is a separate version, the pro, just for the iPad. It has 4 oscs, more LFOs, Filters, and effects. Both versions are very good. I wish they made the Pro for the iPhone because since you can control it with midi, it would be a nice synth in your pocket.

We'll see what they come up with.

But for music, the iPad is a big step up from the phone and touch.

Anyway, for the $15 this costs it's a great synth, even if you throw in the price of the iPad.

It reminds me a bit of the A6. Much less touchy though. Sounds a bit like one, IMHO. This is the first fixed architecture synth that I've really warmed up to this much. But, to be fair, I've not tried all of the nice fixed architecture soft synths out there.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Isn't it just awesome? Peter Zinovieff, eat your heart out! (in a good way of course! Very Happy )

I'm saving for the Line 6 Midi interface too Cool

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Shit!

I just got my MIDI Mobilizer and hooked up my iPad. The midi works, but the NLog Pro doesn't. It plays alright and sounds OK, but it doesn't have enough polyphonic chops to be usable, IMHO. If I set the envelopes to long attack and decay, play a chord and let go, the chord continues to sound and decay as expected, but when I play a new chord, the old one stops before the new one starts sounding. I've tried all kinds of attack/release settings and it always does this if I play more than a single note.

So, it's really not what I was hoping for at all. It's not a good tone module.

So I change my recommendation - close, but no cigar.

More frustrating than useful.

sigh

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Question But many synths once did this. I think Access were the first to get on top of it, by introducing some kind of intelligent management of what sound faded out first. It may also be that this app really shows how underpowered the iPad actually is (as you probably already know already, it's based on the iPhone chip!)

Have you emailed Rolf?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi there,

nobody emailed me Wink

Anyway, the PRO goes for about 12 polyphonic voices including release tails. In order to do this on the A4 chip while keeping high pro quality algorithms I really had to go down to the CPU low level architecture of the chip.

Believe me, it is the best you get on the iPad hardware. Future models will probably add more power and therefore polyphony.

There are apps out with more polyphony, but sounding really cheap.

Is this a reason not to recommend the app? I don't think, unless you are assuming everybody wants to play Rachmaninov Concerts on NLogSynth PRO.

The best way to get NLog better and better is to recommend it. Thus I can spend time into it and pay my rent Wink

Best
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
It's not a good tone module.

So I change my recommendation - close, but no cigar.

More frustrating than useful.

sigh


However, that doesn't stop these two;



Cool

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Shit!

I just got my MIDI Mobilizer and hooked up my iPad. The midi works, but the NLog Pro doesn't. It plays alright and sounds OK, but it doesn't have enough polyphonic chops to be usable, IMHO. If I set the envelopes to long attack and decay, play a chord and let go, the chord continues to sound and decay as expected, but when I play a new chord, the old one stops before the new one starts sounding. I've tried all kinds of attack/release settings and it always does this if I play more than a single note.

So, it's really not what I was hoping for at all. It's not a good tone module.


Let us know if you find a solution.

I'm not sure what Richard and Jordan are doing in Tom's video, exactly. Are they simply avoiding playing consecutive chords in the manner you describe above?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
mosc wrote:
It's not a good tone module.

So I change my recommendation - close, but no cigar.

More frustrating than useful.

sigh


However, that doesn't stop these two;



Cool


They are not playing chords in the manner mosc describes. One is simply triggering an arpeggio and Jordan is playing single notes.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GovernorSilver wrote:

They are not playing chords in the manner mosc describes. One is simply triggering an arpeggio and Jordan is playing single notes.


Gov, you are missing the point.

I could, if I wanted to, say that I don't recommend a Minimoog to someone because it is monophonic, or that it is analogue, or it is made of wood rather than plastic (erm perhaps that's going too far? Wink ) etc etc.

You will find faults in anything if you look hard enough. I don't really like what Jordan and Richard are doing, but what the film demonstrates is that by using NLog, it is not limiting their creativity.

Come on man! I don't have to explain this stuff do I? Wink Very Happy

GovernorSilver wrote:
Let us know if you find a solution.


Indeed, however as Rolf said, email him! Very Happy

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:

They are not playing chords in the manner mosc describes. One is simply triggering an arpeggio and Jordan is playing single notes.


Gov, you are missing the point.



Perhaps it's your British humor? Question You're dealing with Americans here, ol' chap. Laughing

Mosc has a problem that is serious and frustrating to him. I suppose I was just trying to be supportive.

What I am getting of this thread is that this NLog app is not very good. If it is advertised to be playable with chords over MIDI yet does not actually support this feature, that is a pretty serious flaw.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

GovernorSilver wrote:
v-un-v wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:

They are not playing chords in the manner mosc describes. One is simply triggering an arpeggio and Jordan is playing single notes.


Gov, you are missing the point.



Perhaps it's your British humor?


No it's not my sense of humour- I'm deadly serious (for once!).

My point is, that there is NOTHING wrong with NLog. It is a brilliant app. What is letting NLog down is the iPad, which is underpowered. It is the iPad that Mosc shouldn't be recommending- if he is not to recommend anything at all, and not NLog.

To say "NLog is not very good", is in my mind utter nonsense, because on the contrary NLog is excellent, only let down by poor hardware (if you can call it "poor"?).....and so on. Smile

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must add, that I think that comment from Howard was very un-Howard like, which leaves me wondering if Mosc is okay at the moment. It actually worries me a tad. Confused
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
v-un-v wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:

They are not playing chords in the manner mosc describes. One is simply triggering an arpeggio and Jordan is playing single notes.


Gov, you are missing the point.



Perhaps it's your British humor?


No it's not my sense of humour- I'm deadly serious (for once!).

My point is, that there is NOTHING wrong with NLog.


If it is advertised to support a feature that is not actually there, then there IS something wrong with the app. The fix in this case would be to remove the false advertising, so that potential users who are looking for that specific feature will not be misled.

I am not saying that Rolf misled Mosc btw. But clearly there is a disconnect between what the customer expected to be in the app and the app's actual capabilites. Hopefully this can be resolved without belittling Mosc or Rolf (which is not my intention).

What if Jasuto Pro promised a certain type of oscillator and it wasn't there after you installed it? You'd be screaming bloody murder yourself.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok I took a look at the Tempo Rubato site:
http://www.temporubato.com/forums.html?page=Products

It does say NLog Pro is polyphonic. It however does not say whether the chord behavior will be exactly as Mosc expected, based on my understanding of Mosc's problem. Perhaps Rolf understands it better than I do by now.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a good article on TUAW that highlight many of these sentiments raised. I think many expect something "Magical" from an Apple product, when essentially all we are buying into is "just another tech company" (but with a brilliant sense of design, and an even better marketing engine behind them!)

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/11/16/why-you-really-shouldnt-have-expected-more-than-beatles-on-itun/

It's true though don't you think?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yikes, things might be getting a little bit out of hand here. I apologize to everyone for saying I don't recommend NLog Pro; it was an action not worthy of myself; I was posting out of frustration and negativity. Sad

I'm sorry

I will in due course contact Rolf and explain in detail what I'm experiencing.

More thoughtfully, it might have been better to have said that I was having trouble getting it to work as expected. The cause might just as well have been the Line 6 Midi interface, user error, or my expectations were unrealistic.

Whether I use or recommend this app is not all that important. I don't wish to give NLog a negative review.

I will say this: If it looks even remotely interesting to the reader, NLogPro certainly is worth buying. MIDI, it's just one feature. NLog is a great music app even without MIDI. It does indeed do some very powerful things, and it sounds superb.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Aww shucks!! Big hug time! Crying or Very sad Very Happy love

And Tom & Jerry. Everybody needs T & Jez!!



Very Happy Very Happy

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
Yikes, things might be getting a little bit out of hand here. I apologize to everyone for saying I don't recommend NLog Pro; it was an action not worthy of myself; I was posting out of frustration and negativity. :


Quite alright, Howard. There are a few software developers on this planet such as myself who understood where you are coming from, and that you're allowed to be human once in a while.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just set up my iPad with NLog Pro, the Line 6 interface, and my G2 as a controller. I was immediately able to duplicate the problem I previously described. The synth played as expected when using the iPad touch control, but not under MIDI control. So, I set up my camera and started the process of making a movie to show Rolf.

Alas, being the compulsive neurotic that I am, I began to tweak NLog to get a more perfect sound to demonstrate the problem. Alas, I touched something that changed the MIDI behavior! It started working perfectly. Perfectly, in this case means, the MIDI behavior is the same as touch control. I have spent an hour trying to recreate the problem I was having, but I can not.

So, I apologize to Rolf, again. NLog works fine in MIDI.

I give NLog Pro my unabashed recommendation, as I originally stated in the first post of this thread.

So, you might ask, what was the trouble? I think, but I can't verify, that the connection of the Line 6 device into the iPad might be flaky; intermittent in some way. That was one of the things I was messing with. I can detect when Nlog Pro runs into polyphony problems. It seems to be patch dependent, but somewhere around more than 4 note chords. You can play bigger chords, but if you want the decay of "let go" chords to stay, you better keep the chords down to 4 notes. That's good enough, for me, most of the time. If it turns out I can identify what was causing my problem, I'll let Rolf be the first to know, as I should have done in the first place.

This entire post is yet another learning experience for me. I didn't behave as I would have liked. I know that as the founder of electro-music.com, what I say might carry some significance beyond a casual reviewer. I hope to be more thoughtful in the future before I dis someone or something else.

Anyway, it turns out the an iPad and a good synth, like NLog Pro, can be a suitable MIDI controlled tone module in a electro-music rig. So, if you add the price of the iPad and Nlog, you still come up with a reasonably priced very nice virtual analog module - with a nice Kaos style pad and many other features. Add in all the other stuff the iPad can do, it's something I can thoughtfully recommend.

My dream of a rig of a handful of portable devices like the iPad is still alive. Rolf, and others, will work on improving the capabilities of the music making apps. I'll work on improving my manners.

Buy an iPad, get Nlog Plus, have a blast.

Peace

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Laughing end good all good, on to the next problem!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
on to the next problem!


Which is what?! Shocked Wink

(My problem is, that I just need to get the iPad. My wife was told this week that she is being made redundant by January- which of course is a massive blow for all of us. I think if I bought an iPad now, she would leave me! Shocked Exclamation )

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Which is what?! Shocked Wink


Laughing if only I would know!

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