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TR606 Zombie Mod
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: TR606 Zombie Mod
Subject description: TR606 modification, midi, shuffle
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Hi everyone, I am actually working on a complete new processor for Roland TR606 I have finished most of the code, so I can play and enter drums etc works great, I had a dead TR606 and looked around for like 3 years for a replacement processor.....no luck, so I decided to just code a replacement, I want to add features like shuffle, I have completed the code for that but it does not sound correct? in my code I have a variable that gets incremented every time the sync 24 clock signal has a rising or falling edge, on the first step I add one to this variable to give 7 clock cycles before the next drum trig happens then on the next I minus 1 to give 5 clock cycles before the next drum trig, so essentially I am moving the odd steps forward a little bit, but it does not sound very good on anything above 2 shifted cycles, its weird because my code is sound, but I am guessing that it is something else I have not thought of? I noticed that other people still keep the 6 cycles per step but shift them forward? so effectively you have 7 cycles for the first step and 6 for the next is this correct? I want to add flam, midi as much as I can or have various version? if anyone can help me with the shuffle timing problem or is interested in getting one of these mods done? let me know, I will post a video soon on youtube or something or I can email you one?
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This seems a better place to post yeah Cool I've deleted that other one.

Seems interesting, even when I don't quite know what you are writing about Wink .. o .. and welcome of course.

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matrix



Joined: Aug 28, 2005
Posts: 81
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Video would be great. I popped a put up on MATRIXSYNTH as an fyi for readers there as well.

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2010/11/tr606-zombie-mod.html

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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks to you both I will get a video up ASAP
Loco
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I should also mention that I have completed, some small SMD analog voice add ins for the TR606 which include a 909ish bass drum, clap and snare, as you may or may not know there is not much room inside the tiny 606, hence me making the analog voices all surface mount.


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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The analog voices I guess could be made to work with anything, I could design a sound to trig for the modules then you could add them onto any drum machine with separate outs.
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eze



Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7
Location: Stuud

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:28 am    Post subject: interested Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds very interesting. Maybe you could scale it to the 808 later? Probably the same code family so keep track of the 606 proces. Smile
The 808 can't even switch from edit to play mode while running.. Laughing
Shuffle on the 606 and 808 is very nice too!

Let us know how it goes.
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: X0X portable Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes it is totally portable from 606 > 808, 303 as they are wired much the same way, really you could use it for anything just by changing the code a little bit, and yes I agree, the 606 is by far the best unit for doing live sets for the simple reason of being able to switch from pattern play to pattern write while playing, however with some more advanced features it would really be great. I will keep you updated, I tried to record a video last night but my camera is playing up?
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eze



Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7
Location: Stuud

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:49 pm    Post subject: statusss? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How is the project going?
Can I already beta test something... Wink

Keep us up to date
Very Happy
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:51 am    Post subject: TR606 Zombie Mod Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi I have had to put the project on standby as I had to build some other gear for a another friend, two double sided boards jammed packed with through hole and surface mount plus I have to solder it all by hand and produce 20 copies massive job eating all my spare time up, but as soon as I get a video of my efforts so far I will upload it
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eze



Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7
Location: Stuud

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ha, thanks for the update.
Good to hear you didn´t stop the project! That other project might even help learning some things for a larger number of pcb´s, stuffing etc..? Smile

Shuffle and flam on the 606 and 808 would be very nice. Also switching between play/edit on the 808 is VERY welcome.
My 808 has midi built in so I can shuffle it when sequenced by a midi sequencer. It adds a lot (but is not so tight as the 909, 707 shuffle...)

Can I ask when you expect to proceed? I hope you don't mind me supporting a bit, I'm enthousiastic about the idea and don't understand why someone didn't do it before...

I wanted to edit the 909 OS (switchable edit/play and midi output of the drum notes!!) a while ago but I'm no programmer myself. This would also be interesting for a lot of people...
If you have some spare coding time Wink

\Kind regards!
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:43 am    Post subject: Zombie mod Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi I have pretty much finished all the code and have it running, at the moment I have set the 606 so when in play mode if you hold down bar length button it will display on the 16 LED's between step 1-step 8 depending on what level of shuffle you want the user selects between 1-8 for the amount of shuffle, I would prefer to do this with a knob, in a later version. I have tried with the first version to not add any buttons onto the 606 nor drill holes etc into the box, to keep it as is, but to do that I had to try and make functions exist from what was already there, I have also made so it stores the scale per pattern, so you can be playing one pattern at normal speed then when it goes to the next pattern it goes to double speed automatically, as before as you changed the scale the scale would change now you change the scale setting then press the tap button and it stores it, I hijacked the tap button for now as I never really used it, but I can change that at any time to be another button?
I know what you mean about shuffle coming through midi timing its hard to keep really tight timing with midi, the shuffle levels all sound great on the zombified 606 even on the highest level, the 707/909 both have really good shuffle timing, the best to do would to be generate the shuffle timing within the 606 and send that out via midi, the way I have written the software would mean that it would keep better timing than say most digitally generated midi clock, the reason for that is the timing in a 606/808/303 is an analog square wave generated by a vco, I have used the edge of this square wave to drive an interrupt driven routine the timing is really really low latency like 0.5 micro seconds or less before the sound is triggered you could then send midi timing out driven by the edge of this, I am really trying to get these other projects out of the way so I can finish or at least get the 606 to first version stage I have not implemented the "track play/write" function I will do it but I never used to use it because it was really fiddly and irritating to do on the 606, so I used to just play the whole thing live and because of the fact you can switch from pattern play to pattern write while its playing its perfect for it.
I will try and get a video done asap and upload it Smile
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:47 am    Post subject: Zombie mod Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh and regarding the 909 I could totally, re program another chip so you could have the same/similar live performance functionality as the 606 while keeping the good features of the 909
:_)
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:49 am    Post subject: Zombie mod Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Again sorry to break this up into so many little ones, I will be proceeding by the start of march 2011, but I will try and get a video of progress to date asap
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zthee



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 413
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Awesome project! I'll be following this closely!

locoder wrote:
I should also mention that I have completed, some small SMD analog voice add ins for the TR606 which include a 909ish bass drum, clap and snare, as you may or may not know there is not much room inside the tiny 606, hence me making the analog voices all surface mount.


If you release this, either as a finished board, or as a press'n'peel I'd be very interested!

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Dego



Joined: Apr 22, 2008
Posts: 139
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

http://pt-pt.facebook.com/group.php?gid=116335681747357

Here is more about zombie 606
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eze



Joined: Jul 27, 2008
Posts: 7
Location: Stuud

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HI!
Yes, I agree it would be best if you could access al functions with existing knobs-switches and no extra would have to be installed...
You know I DO use the tap button when I like to program an instrument on the run! Please let it keep that function...

How is your upgrade implemented? Is it just replacing the rom with the program or did you make new connections from the switches etc?

Good to hear you plan to implement the "track play/write" function too.

Hope you have time for it soon. Please let me know if you need any advise, opinion etc... Smile

Hey, considering the 909 OS, that sounds very promissing! Do you know old coding- assembling or would you program something new?
Do you think both play/edit switching as well as note output over midi would be possible??

Kind regards.
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi
Quote:
You know I DO use the tap button when I like to program an instrument on the run! Please let it keep that function..
.

Yes I can keep that function no problem instead I can use the pattern bank button.
in other words only while in pattern write mode will the pattern group button work as the scale store procedure however when back in pattern play mode the pattern group button will work the same as the original, you could then change the pattern group while in pattern play mode, and while playing in the new pattern group change into pattern write mode and again the button becomes the scale store button, on the flip side while in pattern play mode I could use the tap button (only while in pattern play mode) to do something else?

Quote:
How is your upgrade implemented? Is it just replacing the rom with the program or did you make new connections from the switches etc?


The upgrade is designed and coded on a new today technology micro-controller from atmel, I have built a little pcb that has tracks going from different pins as they dont match up, to the old pins, as for the hardware switches etc I have not made any changes it uses the original matrix style switch interface that roland designed in 1981. there are a few hardware changes as in IC's that are not needed anymore and cause crap to be on the IO so I have removed them the old shitty but expensive 4bit ram, etc. so basically I have only really re-coded a controller for the old TR606 hardware, but because I have done this it means I have complete control over all the features, and not much hardware modification. Cool

Quote:
Good to hear you plan to implement the "track play/write" function too.


Too be honest I never used to use the track play/write function and I will need to look up in the manual (if I can find one) how they originally did this, from what I recall it was tedious and f#$%ing irritating to do on the original, I would like to implement something that is easier but so far my best ideas need more info given to the user i.e a LCD screen for it too be easy and have a good user feedback system, and therefore I have at the moment just have it with the ability to write patterns and switch between the patterns or have it play like 8 patterns in a sequence while playing, and being able to write, which is much better for people you do live sets that are actually live, however I realize that many people may want to produce a track and sit back while the unit plays through what they have programmed at an earlier stage. So I will need to think about this because I do not want to code something that makes people get angry with there machine and end up punching it, so I will still need to think about how I can do this the best with what is already there on the unit??

Quote:
Hope you have time for it soon. Please let me know if you need any advise, opinion etc...


Thanks no worries at all, look everyones ideas are good ideas, and please feel free to write any ideas you have on the forum, I might not use the idea however its good for me to see what different people like and do not like or what they like within there music machines Very Happy

Quote:
Hey, considering the 909 OS, that sounds very promissing! Do you know old coding- assembling or would you program something new?
Do you think both play/edit switching as well as note output over midi would be possible??


Yes I know old coding but maybe not for the NEC brand of early 80's 4bit and 8bit processors I was only 2 when the first 606/303 was built so while some Japanese engineer was coding the original 606/303 I was sitting and shitting my pants wondering when my next blast of titty milk was coming.
I wouldn't use an old processor like that to do what you asked, the newer processors are faster have more options, plus trying to find a compiler for that old gear maybe impossible that gear that was used to design and code with those old processors is probably sitting at the bottom of garbage tips all over the world?? so yes I would use a newer processor and code it in C and assembler, assembly language has not changed that much over the years for the 8 bit processors, I mean the opcodes are pretty much the same, however the user software to design and debug with micro-controllers has become sooo much better.
As for play/edit switching over midi? do you mean controlling the play and track write from some other controller into the machine? I dont see why you would do that when you could do that from within the machine itself, and then just sync the machine up, if I understand you correctly, if you were controlling the playing/writing from another machine like say a computer program like ableton, then the computer would be doing all the sequencing and timing, and your unit becomes a sound module??
could you please explain what you mean a bit more Smile

I think that anything you can think of can be implemented to work within a system, however some times getting to what you thought of can mean more work than is possible withing our current technology that we may be using
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject: flam Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would also like to implement flam on the 606, however I would prefer to have the flamed notes as different coloured LED's
this would mean a whole new design of a switch board pcb?
Or I would have to figure out someway of doing it with what is already there maybe a button that you press, and then it only shows the flamed notes if any etc, but if I do that the user wouldn't be able to see where the original notes are? so another idea is to control the brightness of the notes with the level of flam, but this would be much harder to do I would have to do it with timing as in the amount of time the LEDS are on and this changes depending on if flam has been pressed the user would do this by instead of pressing a button on and it turns red, then you press again and it turns off, I would have the user press once == drum trig no flam low level brightness led, then press again and you have drum trig plus flam high brightness, press again and note off led turned off? there are other things I would like to do, but there is a limit to what I can and cant do, that is if I do not make any modifications to the box, so what you may up seeing in the future is one mod where it just uses what is there and then a monster zombie mod where there is much more in the box with different pcb designed to carry these functions out??
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:25 pm    Post subject: Mini analog (smd) PCB's Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

zthee wrote:
Awesome project! I'll be following this closely!

locoder wrote:
I should also mention that I have completed, some small SMD analog voice add ins for the TR606 which include a 909ish bass drum, clap and snare, as you may or may not know there is not much room inside the tiny 606, hence me making the analog voices all surface mount.


If you release this, either as a finished board, or as a press'n'peel I'd be very interested!


Hi I have no problem giving you the artwork for these, again I have not completed building these little ones yet, to see how well they do, but regardless I will keep you in the loop, I may even be able to sell professionally made PCB's if you were interested, but it mayb e awhile before I have them made?
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5.333V



Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: gothenburg

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi.

i just ot a non working 606, thinking that it would be rather easy to fix.

how ever, it seems like the brain is busted. Crying or Very sad

how is the projekt going? is it possible to get a replacement micro?

great work by the way!!!
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locoder



Joined: Nov 22, 2010
Posts: 16
Location: melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:09 pm    Post subject: Zombiez ... "Its alive"
Subject description: progress
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5.333V wrote:
hi.

i just ot a non working 606, thinking that it would be rather easy to fix.

how ever, it seems like the brain is busted. Crying or Very sad

how is the projekt going? is it possible to get a replacement micro?

great work by the way!!!


hey mate all is well its going great, look there is a facebook page dedicated to it do a search for "TR606 Zombie modifications" there are videos of the mod as its is now, its pretty much done, but I have found there is a bug in the sync it usually holds time fine but when I use my added shuffle function it seems to sway in and out it will be a shitty overloaded variable, I also have a TB303 version so if you know anyone who has a broken TB303 ie fried cpu... let them know..
i HAVE DELETED MY FACEBOOK PAGE BECAUSE I WASTE SO MUCH TIME DOING NOTHING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ON THE THING, so if your going to join let me know and I will log back on to accept you, and then re delete my account

" also this is good indicator that your cpu is fried... when you turn it on, and press play just the first led lights up .... it wont scan ...
have you checked that it is not set to scale of 1? do you know how to check that... press play while in pattern write mode while holding down scale also press step 16 that will make the track length 16 notes... " get back to me with some more specific diagnosis, I am a doctor not a pool man, does it have a cough, sore testicles... or whatever .. lol no just tell me the symptoms which leds come on if you can hear anything for me to give a more thorough diagnosis, it may not be cpu could be ram... if ram has fried then it wont work, I beleive that cpu has fuck all internal ram no ram... no way it can run its software, where will it store temporary variables..

ram is fucking expensive for tr606 ?? upd444c i believe 80 bucks a piece but alas if thats the problem cause I am a nice guy I will give you some new ram for free, because i am in a particularly generous mood, and I love TR606.

replacement micros for all old rolands are so so fucking rare I was on a waiting list for 4 years and I still didn't get one, I do have 2 brand new TB303 microprocessors that I bought way back in the day when I was going to make a clone... they are priceless I had a guy offer to give me 50 BA662 chips for them, I declined, because they do not exist anymore, roland corp has mostly thrown them out I know this because I asked, so somewhere underground at tips all around the world are priceless little gold mines Sad how sad....

like I said i waited for 4 years thats why i decided to make zombie mods, because the truth is all those processors will start dying exponentially, they are way passed their used by date, 20 years is the life time of an old processor..... made in 1982 do the math....

anyway dude get back to me with some more questions and I am sure I can give you a few answers
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5.333V



Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 9
Location: gothenburg

PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi!

glad you was still here! and sounds promising with the cpu!

i must say its pretty impressive with people who first of all can program micros and even sit down and work on a reissue for theese old machines which should stay undead. this is like sorcery to me! id love to learn this some day.

im not 100% sure the cpu is dead. its not completly dead atleast i think becuase i cant see any shorts to ground and all my clocks are working and have been calibrated.

all voltages are fine
all cables are fine
no shorts (atleast not on any ics)
i could here toms by accidently touching a part of the voiceboard
non of the tact switches are shorted

sequencer does not run, not even with external sync
leds on play and pattern I&II works (play led works even in sync)
the rest of the leds dont come on when pushing steps and so on

not much happening on cpu pins to ram, pretty much on or off, both rams seemd to be selected always via a nand (ic6) with steady 5v on. i would guess that one should be selected at a time...

im not very good with logics, but i susspected some of the ic might been damaged. so i have replaced all (logics) but ic6 for know. even put sockets in btween.

i also have new 6514 rams from jameco. i think ill replace the 444 with thoose aswell as they are known to die.

i havent check modes/scale switches either.



i havent got facebook. i dont like the idea and people seems to become zombies with it... Smile

very kind of you to offer rams!!!!


so what you think?
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Paradigm X



Joined: Feb 15, 2011
Posts: 276
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very interesting project. Especially a 909 mod to enable play/edit - priceless!

I love my 606 and 909.

I also have no facebook, so cant check out more. I will reread this thread in detail (skimmed it last night).

Cheers

Ben
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Dougster



Joined: Sep 20, 2005
Posts: 272
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very cool! I have a dead 606 myself. I got it originally, knowing it was dead, so that I could have a reference for my 606 clone. It would be great if I could get the thing going again with a new processor. Anything I can do to help you?

Regards,
Doug

P.S. I don't do Facebook either...

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