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The Liquid High Hat - Back from the dead! [PCB's]
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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

telbonic wrote:
It's all looking good - I get that smearing once in a while, I think some of the dyes in the ink seperate out and bond to the board somehow - it generally happens when I'm being light on the acetone.

Will it be possible for those of us with all the gear to etch our own boards from the original artwork rather than ordering boards? I'm in the UK, it's a bit quicker to roll my own as it were Smile


Yeah, it would seem that it's on there pretty good. I went over it with more acetone and it wouldn't come out!

And, great question!

The answer is yes, absolutely! I will be releasing the artwork for people to use after the design has been tested and approved, and I have made my time I put into the project back Smile Shouldn't be too long until you can have it Razz

I'd post it right after testing, but you never know...there ARE some bad people out there that might steal my artwork for profit. And as much as most people on this forum are fantastic, I seem to remember hearing of some bad stuff happening around here.

Once I've got my piece of the pie back for the last week I have devoted nearly my every spare hour to this project, I'm more than happy to share it with everyone! - really, that's an understatement. In the grand scheme of things, what matters is that I have helped contribute in a small way to the DIY community by offering my services AND contributing my layout for free; not that I made a couple of bucks making some PCB's, but there is really no reason both cannot be had...

I WANT to give the layout to everyone to use right now, but I'm going to go the cautious route just in case there is a saboteur lurking somewhere.

Whew, sorry for the novel there. I just feel really bad withholding it for a bit, so I want to make my motives for doing so very clear!
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telbonic



Joined: Jan 08, 2010
Posts: 38
Location: uk

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't sweat it Hex - I'll happily wait till you're good to release the artwork.

I'm not adverse to buying a board if you'd prefer anyway, I was hoping to avoid waiting for them to arrive over here (always feels like forever to get stuff to the UK). Just thought I'd save you the trouble/time of making one too Very Happy
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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

telbonic wrote:
Don't sweat it Hex - I'll happily wait till you're good to release the artwork.

I'm not adverse to buying a board if you'd prefer anyway, I was hoping to avoid waiting for them to arrive over here (always feels like forever to get stuff to the UK). Just thought I'd save you the trouble/time of making one too Very Happy


Thanks for being understanding Smile

I know all too well the wait for components and stuff, as I am in Canada. While it's not overseas, unless it comes from Canada, it is still a terribly long wait for most stuff (at least 2-3 weeks unless you pay for extra shipping)

That is of course not including huge distributors like Digikey...they are very fast (but shipping is $8.00 minimum)!

Also I have experienced the time it takes to get overseas TO here...and that sucks just as bad I'm sure! 3 weeks + most of the time. So I know your pain Sad
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tazer



Joined: Oct 18, 2010
Posts: 49
Location: UK

PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey put me down for 2 also-i read the post for the liquid hihat a while ago and thought it looked very interesting good to see your doing something with it. I've had stuff delivered to the uk in as little as 8 days not all bad, this time of year should be good.

ian
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droffset



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll take two of these HexInverter Smile
Do you have a general idea about prices?

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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure thing, Dr. Offset and tazer!

Currently, Rich is experimenting to get the best values of resistors for some of the optional pots/controls in the LHH. We are also making some slight changes that will increase the sonic capabilities quite a bit! Note that these changes shouldn't require anything more on the BOM than a couple extra resistors; maybe a switch, I think - so they're sort of "free" extra features being worked in!

Anyways, hopefully Rich can polish up the changes soon, then I can start making boards! Smile I anticipate perhaps next, next weekend we may have some results!

Anyways, as for the board cost - I am thinking $20 per board. So pretty much your typical module's board cost. I would like to make it cheaper, since they're home made, but there are a LOT of holes to drill! At ~ 4 seconds per hole it is in the realm of 15 minutes give or take of non stop drilling for one board, and I have to let the drill press cool off every board or so. There are still material costs and etching and all that factored in, so it works out to a little above minimum wage for me, which I am happy to do them for Smile

I will have a concrete price figured out once I've made a couple more of them at a time, but I'm pretty sure it will be $20 per.
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telbonic



Joined: Jan 08, 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds great, I'm in for two when the time comes. Perhaps if you get a lot of orders it'd be just as well to get a run of boards fabbed? Just a thought, might save a lot of drilling Very Happy
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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

telbonic wrote:
Sounds great, I'm in for two when the time comes. Perhaps if you get a lot of orders it'd be just as well to get a run of boards fabbed? Just a thought, might save a lot of drilling Very Happy


The thought has crossed my mind!

One problem is the cash situation. I don't want to ask for money before the boards are done. If doing a pro run, I would have to do that (with the current state of affairs)

We shall see how things go Smile

At the very least, I will offer a small run of home made boards for those that can't wait for it - then perhaps a second run of boards by a pcb house. They would still be single sided/non solder masked, so nobody would be losing out or anything Smile
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emdot_ambient



Joined: Nov 22, 2009
Posts: 669
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You could always do a kickstarter project like tabulaRasa's doing for their DIY wavetable synth

People who want to make sure they don't miss out on a production run could pre-order, thus giving you start up funds to do a pro run.

Just an idea.

I know I'll be in for at least 1.

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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

emdot_ambient wrote:
You could always do a kickstarter project like tabulaRasa's doing for their DIY wavetable synth

People who want to make sure they don't miss out on a production run could pre-order, thus giving you start up funds to do a pro run.

Just an idea.

I know I'll be in for at least 1.


Very cool site! I've never seen that before Smile Thanks for the link and suggestion!

It's just another way of asking for money before hand though...lol Razz

In any case, I have just received notification that Rich has received the beta board for testing! Smile
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telbonic



Joined: Jan 08, 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm looking forward to it...ask him to do another basement vid when it's ready, they crack me up Smile
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andrewF



Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

telbonic wrote:
I'm looking forward to it...ask him to do another basement vid when it's ready, they crack me up Smile


Yes! Ryk's vids are brilliant!!
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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

telbonic wrote:
I'm looking forward to it...ask him to do another basement vid when it's ready, they crack me up Smile


Hehe! I didn't even have to ask...he's told me he's going to already! Very Happy

Yeah, I think they're super entertaining too! Laughing
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loydb



Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 369
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the Tabula link, I'm in for a pre-built, no-jacks or pots version.
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reve



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be in for one as well. Smile
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh my friggin' gawd! I FINALLY remembered what my username and password are here! Laughing I haven't even bothered trying to login for months, as I didn't think I'd remember what they were. I've just been typing away at my Forum instead! Laughing

K. Yes - I've given Hexinverter FULL permission to do a PCB for the Liquid HiHat as well as selling it. All that I've asked him for are beta testing as well as a board or two and I'm happy. Smile

The response that I've seen from you all here in my reading just now has just about blown me away! Wholey schidt! Surprised (Making sure to not let my fiancé know of this as she's not into me doing things for free. Hahahaha. Profitting, is NOT my point in this. Just to hopefully have others have fun, with something I came up with. Smile )

YES! Hex's beta board got here last Friday. Last weekend was fully booked and this past week of at work has been insane! (Pile of new models coming out from RIM (Blackberry people). They, are our only customer. Busy busy busy. Sad )

FINALLY though, I'm going to start getting the parts onto the beta board for testing it! I WILL be shooting a video of that, once it's all connected. With my fiancé babbling at me since she got home from work, it could be a busy weekend as well. Sad BUT ... I'll be making it clear that I have to get this board started.

Now - I'm not going to go into details yet, but there are TWO mod's that I wish to try to the original V1.00 that this PCB is OF. There wont be any additional parts. Only rerouting of the signals for some possible harmonic additions to the audio. These tests wont be performed until I have the board hooked up and passing it's test.

IF either or both of the tests are successful, then I will of course be video shooting THAT, too. Very Happy

Now - I HOPE, I can get all of the beta PCB hooked up this weekend. I HOPE. Let's see what happens. Smile

If either one of the test modifications is successful, this WILL be:

The Liquid HiHat V3.00.
(Version 2, used a completely different 'engine' and ... failed miserably. Sad Too many deadspots in the pots.)
(Version 101010, in my new noise machine, is 100% patchable and ... I don't think I should consider it a Liquid HiHat specifically.)

Version 3.00 will be at most as simple as V1.00. I'm more than likely removing the 'Range' controls from each of the 4046's, to save some pot real estate for the front panel. (I believe Hex mentioned it as being optional, which I like.)
Also - 2 x CVs for each 4046 will again, be user optional. Pot or no, for each. ( I definitely recommend, a pot for each of 2 x CVs per 4046, for maximum controllability.)

K. I'm ranting on endlessly. Eat / sleep soon and hopefully beginning soldering in the morning, before we head out shopping.

Very, VERY cool to see the interest and HUGE amounts of thanks to Hexinverter for taking to this task! Very Happy

(Any here that are members of my Forum, there's more details on it in it's thread there - if I recall correctly. Just in case my signature isn't working - the Forum is at: http://deathlehem.com/php/ )
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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Rykhaard wrote:
Oh my friggin' gawd! I FINALLY remembered what my username and password are here! Laughing I haven't even bothered trying to login for months, as I didn't think I'd remember what they were. I've just been typing away at my Forum instead! Laughing

K. Yes - I've given Hexinverter FULL permission to do a PCB for the Liquid HiHat as well as selling it. All that I've asked him for are beta testing as well as a board or two and I'm happy. Smile

The response that I've seen from you all here in my reading just now has just about blown me away! Wholey schidt! Surprised (Making sure to not let my fiancé know of this as she's not into me doing things for free. Hahahaha. Profitting, is NOT my point in this. Just to hopefully have others have fun, with something I came up with. Smile )

YES! Hex's beta board got here last Friday. Last weekend was fully booked and this past week of at work has been insane! (Pile of new models coming out from RIM (Blackberry people). They, are our only customer. Busy busy busy. Sad )

FINALLY though, I'm going to start getting the parts onto the beta board for testing it! I WILL be shooting a video of that, once it's all connected. With my fiancé babbling at me since she got home from work, it could be a busy weekend as well. Sad BUT ... I'll be making it clear that I have to get this board started.

Now - I'm not going to go into details yet, but there are TWO mod's that I wish to try to the original V1.00 that this PCB is OF. There wont be any additional parts. Only rerouting of the signals for some possible harmonic additions to the audio. These tests wont be performed until I have the board hooked up and passing it's test.

IF either or both of the tests are successful, then I will of course be video shooting THAT, too. Very Happy

Now - I HOPE, I can get all of the beta PCB hooked up this weekend. I HOPE. Let's see what happens. Smile

If either one of the test modifications is successful, this WILL be:

The Liquid HiHat V3.00.
(Version 2, used a completely different 'engine' and ... failed miserably. Sad Too many deadspots in the pots.)
(Version 101010, in my new noise machine, is 100% patchable and ... I don't think I should consider it a Liquid HiHat specifically.)

Version 3.00 will be at most as simple as V1.00. I'm more than likely removing the 'Range' controls from each of the 4046's, to save some pot real estate for the front panel. (I believe Hex mentioned it as being optional, which I like.)
Also - 2 x CVs for each 4046 will again, be user optional. Pot or no, for each. ( I definitely recommend, a pot for each of 2 x CVs per 4046, for maximum controllability.)

K. I'm ranting on endlessly. Eat / sleep soon and hopefully beginning soldering in the morning, before we head out shopping.

Very, VERY cool to see the interest and HUGE amounts of thanks to Hexinverter for taking to this task! Very Happy

(Any here that are members of my Forum, there's more details on it in it's thread there - if I recall correctly. Just in case my signature isn't working - the Forum is at: http://deathlehem.com/php/ )


Yay! Great to have you here again, Rich!

I was beginning to feel lonely Razz
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HexInverter wrote:
Yay! Great to have you here again, Rich!

I was beginning to feel lonely Razz


Don't they calls it somethin' like "Ol' timer's memory" or sumfin'? Laughing (As to my username / password) Wink
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Dragon's Lair



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Man, if people had been this enthusiastic about the original pcb's, I would have done a run of boards, as it was, I never even got any feedback from the two beta testers, so I basically gave away $100 worth of boards for nothing.
It wasn't a total loss though, I ended up modifying the circuit and adding a couple LFOs, turning it into a self contained noise machine.
I hope you have better luck with this version.
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HexInverter



Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Posts: 338
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dragon's Lair wrote:
Man, if people had been this enthusiastic about the original pcb's, I would have done a run of boards, as it was, I never even got any feedback from the two beta testers, so I basically gave away $100 worth of boards for nothing.
It wasn't a total loss though, I ended up modifying the circuit and adding a couple LFOs, turning it into a self contained noise machine.
I hope you have better luck with this version.


Hmm...perhaps you should have waited to see if there was interest before getting prototypes developed? That would be my guess.

Yeah, there's quite a bit of interest now!
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telbonic



Joined: Jan 08, 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dragon's Lair wrote:
Man, if people had been this enthusiastic about the original pcb's, I would have done a run of boards, as it was, I never even got any feedback from the two beta testers, so I basically gave away $100 worth of boards for nothing.
It wasn't a total loss though, I ended up modifying the circuit and adding a couple LFOs, turning it into a self contained noise machine.
I hope you have better luck with this version.


Thats a real shame Dragon - seems quite unfair. I'm glad you got something good out of it in the end.
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Short update: Hexinverter's PCB is fully populated and hooked up to pots. Works on 1st try. Just about to hook up my MFOS Sound FX synth. for LFO / AD EG's testing along with it. If all goes well, I'll have it's first vid. up this evening.
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm currently uploading, a 15 minute long video of the new build of the Liquid HiHat V1.00 to my youtube site. It should be available within an hour or so.

Whilst trying to put up with HORRID volume changes from my almost dead TOA mixer, I tried to give some good examples of changes with the:

4 x manual CD40106 oscillator's pitch controls
2 x CD4046 VCO manual pitch controls
2 x Triangle LFOs modulating both of the VCOs
1 x Attack / Decay EG modulating the VCA that the LHH is going through
1 x Attack / Decay EG modulating the pitch of VCO #1

No effects were used and if you're able to put up with the horrible volume changes, you should be able to get the beginnings of an idea as to how the Liquid HiHat V1.00 sounds - again. Smile

If I'm able to find time tomorrow, I'll see if I can begin tests on my 2 modification ideas.

More later.

Edit: as I mentioned in the video - the 2 x LFOs from my MFOS Sound FX Synth. are putting out +/- CVs. The 4046's don't seem to like -V's. So - when they're being modulated by these LFOs, you only hear the voltage changes from the +V swings from them. (I.E. there are pauses in the frequency changes, from the triangle shape LFOs.)
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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ooops. I forgot to post the link to the video that I'd put up, last night. Surprised

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Rykhaard



Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And here's the next vid. In this one, I have completed the 2 intended modifications:

- all outputs brought to jacks on the front panel
- all inputs brought to jacks on the frnot panel
- a feedback jack, brought out to the front panel, for hooking it up into any of the XOR inputs

If both of these modifications continue to work as expected (as they have so far, in 2 tests), these will be the final changes to the 3rd (4th actually) version of the Liquid HiHat. Smile

I still have to make protection resistor and diode additions to every area in the schematic. I'm also thinking of adding the option of +/- Voltage offset pots, for each of the VCO's summed CV inputs. This will allow any type of + or - CV modulation to be used. (The summed CV outs are passed through forward biased diodes before reaching the 4046's.)

Hope you enjoy. Smile

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