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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Backlog Free "Special Timbral Generator" DIY
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inform3r



Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 59
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey phd... Any idea on what the price will be? Also, will it accept 1.2v CV? What kind of power connector will it have? I noticed you mentioned card-edge connectors on your blog, but I can't tell for sure if they have anything to do with powering the circuit.
BTW, I have an original panel of the module that inspired you to build this circuit. Will it be possible to put your PCB behind my panel and wire up the corresponding knobs, switches, exactly like the original?
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phdinfunk



Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

inform3r wrote:
Hey phd... Any idea on what the price will be? Also, will it accept 1.2v CV? What kind of power connector will it have? I noticed you mentioned card-edge connectors on your blog, but I can't tell for sure if they have anything to do with powering the circuit.
BTW, I have an original panel of the module that inspired you to build this circuit. Will it be possible to put your PCB behind my panel and wire up the corresponding knobs, switches, exactly like the original?


I'm not 100% sure on the price yet. Allied is selling Vactrols for about 5 bucks a pop. You've got to pay for 8 of those, some cool transistors and tempcos and such, PCB manufacturing and assembly. I am working like hell to source things and find a PCB fab and assembly house to get all this done for as low a price for the end-user as possible. If I end up, for example, able to buy a bulk of vactrols from some warehouse through alibaba.com or something along those lines, then everything gets cheaper.

It's going to be 1v/Oct, not 1.2V/Oct, However, it could be modified for 1.2V if you are comfortable messing around with SMTs, or can find someone who is.

We're setting it up with a "blacet style" power input and everything is running off +15V/-15V/0V.

The pots, jacks, LEDs, etc will connect to edge connectors, and I'll probably set up a ribbon cable with the remote control inputs (basically an aux CV system and a system to control the switching).

The topology is precisely the same as the original, and we've kept the switchable computer control system as well. Though we are not the same manufacturer as the original, we're working to keep the soul of the system as true to the original as possible. Thus, you will be able to wire it up, switch for switch, pot for pot, jack for jack, LED for LED to an original panel if you so desire.

For people without original panels, we're looking into having panels made from Printed Circuit Board material that fit FracRac systems. The good news on this part is that it looks like it will be astonishingly cheap once we're having ten or more done at a time.

--JP

www.phdinfunk.com
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cbm



Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 381
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So the board(s) aren't set up to parallel to the panel like in the original?
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phdinfunk



Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:28 pm    Post subject: Yes Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They ARE meant to be parallel to the front panel. However, the front panel design I'm setting up attaches them via standoffs.

The original also had a panel control board, which was wired to the mainboard. I'm bypassing all that and just making it one PCB with everything that you attach to whatever panel design you like via wires to the edge connectors.

Now, to answer more specifically informer's question: my panel dimensions are different from the original and it WON'T mount directly onto the panel via the pots the way the old one did.

Originally I'd planned to make everything panel mount. But I decided that I want to leave people more options.... like the fella who wants to mount to an original panel.

--JP

www.phdinfunk.com
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

you should provide also a single general connector for ribon cable for all pots,led etc.

So then it worth for someone to draw a pot-pcb for this project..
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phdinfunk



Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

TekniK wrote:
you should provide also a single general connector for ribon cable for all pots,led etc.

So then it worth for someone to draw a pot-pcb for this project..


Okay, that's a good idea. Anyone see a problem with using a ribbon connector for all pots, LEDs, etc? At this point, it's not a big deal to move things around on the PCB.

www.phdinfunk.com
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inform3r



Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 59
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

phdinfunk wrote:
I am working like hell to source things and find a PCB fab and assembly house to get all this done for as low a price for the end-user as possible.


Speaking of sourcing... JP, you should PM me. I have sources for those pesky "unobtanium" parts, as well as a small stash for myself. I'd be willing to donate enough of these parts to you for the purpose of getting the prototype up and running. It's also my way of "giving back" to this great community. Let me know if this is of any interest to you.

phdinfunk wrote:

It's going to be 1v/Oct, not 1.2V/Oct, However, it could be modified for 1.2V if you are comfortable messing around with SMTs, or can find someone who is.


Glad to hear it's possible to modify it for 1.2V. Will you provide instructions to those who wish to do so when the PCB is available?

phdinfunk wrote:

we're working to keep the soul of the system as true to the original as possible. Thus, you will be able to wire it up, switch for switch, pot for pot, jack for jack, LED for LED to an original panel if you so desire.


That is amazing! The only challenge will be finding a way to mount your PCB to an original front panel. The original has 4 countersink screw holes for attaching the PCB(s). Will your PCB have the mounting holes in the same location as the original PCB? Laughing Or is that wishful thinking on my part? If it doesn't, I'll have to concoct some sort of Rube Goldberg device to make it work. Smile

-John
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phdinfunk



Joined: Jun 04, 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Taiwan

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:22 am    Post subject: short run Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, it looks like two things are going to happen with this....

1) I am going to make a pretty short run of these. It's going to cost me quite a pile of cash to get, say 25-30 of them made. I want four for myself to make a four voice synth.... that's pretty much going to be it.

2) They will overshoot initial estimates in cost because these are quite a bit more difficult to put together than you might guess. I thought at one point I'd be able to substitute 5c1 vactrols, but it really needs to use 5c3s, and of course there's nothing equivalent to the 5c3/2s either... also, we basically need to use some pretty specific transistors in this circuit to get close to the original design. . . . also, the parts count is just... well, if you have any idea what circuit we're cloning, just look at the number of ICs. Hell, look at the number of frigging resistors(!!). Plus we're fabbing 7.5"x4.25" PCBs to assemble all this on. Basically, there seems to be no way to keep this cost as low as I'd hoped.

So, this is essentially going to be a one-shot short run clone for the DIYers who absolutely want something special. I'm going to be very interested to see what people do with them, since they're absolutely made to not sit around in a toolbox somewhere, but to get up and running and rocking and rolling.

--Jonathan Pratt

www.phdinfunk.com
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sduck



Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Nashville
Audio files: 5

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I still want one!
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cbm



Joined: Oct 25, 2005
Posts: 381
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:11 pm    Post subject: Re: short run Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

phdinfunk wrote:
Plus we're fabbing 7.5"x4.25" PCBs to assemble all this on.

If you could get that down to 6.5" x 4.25" it could fit behind one panel of a popular synth format.

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notimeforlove



Joined: Oct 05, 2010
Posts: 1
Location: Englewood CO

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm probably in for 1 or 2 depending on price, especially if you do just the PCB and we source parts and assemble.
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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Plus we're fabbing 7.5"x4.25" PCBs to assemble all this on.



hm.. i guess it fits the other way if you use a 2W panel?

why not just sell PCBs as well and let the builder source parts? I would get a couple boards.

the vactrols are def the $. it may be possible to organize a decent group buy from the factory to get better pricing. most all the other parts that come to mind [including assumed substitutions] atm are not a big deal. most smd resistors and smaller caps are less than a cent in bulk.

so, is your board layout finished? tested? if u made a bom, those interested in this could collaborate a bit on sourcing things.
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inform3r



Joined: Sep 03, 2006
Posts: 59
Location: nyc

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jonathan, did you PM me? My PM isn't working right now for whatever reason. I got a notification saying I have a message but nothing shows up in my inbox. If you need to contact me use my email address listed on my profile. Sorry everybody for having to post this out here.
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synthi



Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Posts: 28
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Still interested in one or two. Either PCB only or assembled!
Rolling Eyes
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TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1062

PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: short run Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

phdinfunk wrote:
It's going to cost me quite a pile of cash to get, say 25-30 of them made.
--Jonathan Pratt

www.phdinfunk.com


Drop future anouncements,made one working prototype ,when ready post extensive audio and video files,inform for yourself and announce price vs quantity,organise and collect pre-payment orders,let manufacture,sell
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Moogah



Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 26
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm in for a pair of these, and I'm also with the group who would be just as happy to see PCB's instead of "finished" modules Smile
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adambee7



Joined: Apr 04, 2009
Posts: 420
Location: united kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'd like just the pcbs aswell. i dont mind soldering smd. done years of it at work. Very Happy Very Happy
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djs



Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Posts: 4
Location: south beloit, il

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd be interested in a pcb.. not so much the fully built board...
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RSFC



Joined: Sep 02, 2010
Posts: 63
Location: space lab

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm interest too, dependent on the finalization of everything. It would be a shame to limit the project if you could just sell PCBs as well. You might consider something like PCBs with the SMT already done, the rest to be completed by the the DIYers...
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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah really, PCB and all smd parts purchased in bulk and baked on at the factory would probably still come out to less than $40 ea in asia.
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ericcoleridge



Joined: Jan 16, 2007
Posts: 885
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

From what I've been told, it seems that it would be difficult to have this manufactured in surface mount, considering all the special selection, calibrating,and trimming that must be done in order for it to work at all. I think that's what keeps it from being a practical DIY project, and why it's so difficult and expensive to produce at all.

If someone can figure it out, I'd definitely want one.
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diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 795
Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would also be interested in PCB only run 4 or maybe 6 voices
dont mind SMD at all
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jonkull



Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 164
Location: Burbank, CA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I would love one of these as well.
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mono-poly



Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 935
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm interested in some pcb's
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amnesia



Joined: Jul 29, 2006
Posts: 148
Location: amnesia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am interested in PCBs, parts and or faceplate completed or not if it looks and fits into Buchla boats Smile This has been a dream for me to play on a 259 Smile
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