electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Shift registors? What are they for?
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: mosc
Page 1 of 1 [22 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
Oweng4000



Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: Shift registors? What are they for? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just wondering, what do shift registers do as far as audio? Everyone has one in their lunetta, but i'm very confused as to what they do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DGTom



Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 210
Location: Adelaide
Audio files: 3
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For lunettas you can use them in just about anyplace you would normally use a divider, but they are a little more interesting because you can set-up static or fluctuating loops.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oweng4000



Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks, but that made me even more confused than before. Embarassed
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oweng4000



Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just realized how rude that sounded. I'm a noob at this, so I have no idea what dividers do either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kabzoer



Joined: Feb 07, 2011
Posts: 82
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They divide the squarewave that goes to the input and a square wave with a lower frequency comes out at the output.
A basic divider is the cd4040 and it divides by 2, 4, 8, 16, etc. So it makes the output by every division by 2 an octave lower. That's all i can say about dividers, I hope it helped...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DGTom



Joined: Dec 08, 2008
Posts: 210
Location: Adelaide
Audio files: 3
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry, I guess there are no two ways of working with a lunetta that are alike, but, in general, you take 1 or more high frequency squarewaves, divide them, combine them with logic etc. shift registers are just another cog in the machine.

shift registers aquire data (the outputs of clocks, logic, dividers) & then store and/or distribute it, depending on the IC in question.


for what its worth, audio or 'music' or whatever kind of emerges from lunettas but its hard to think / talk about them in audio terms... just mess with the data till it sounds cool Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kabzoer



Joined: Feb 07, 2011
Posts: 82
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That's all that can be said about it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Posts: 486
Location: new zealand
Audio files: 2

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Pasting from the document:
...
Shift registers have two kinds of inputs, Clocks and Data.

Think of clocks as usually regular predictable on/off streams. 1010101 over and over. Any oscillator can be a clock. It sets the timing for the shifting.
Think of Data as less predictable streams of highs and low. instead of 101010101, you can get stuff like 10010111100010010100110101001. See?

So a shift register is like passing a bucket of water down a line of people. The first person passes on a full bucket of water, and it goes down the line of people. Then he passes an empty bucket of water down the line. The clock determines the speed of the passing down the line of outputs, and the data input determines the high or low status being passed down the line of outputs. That's why we need logic gates to make interesting irregular streams of data to pass down the line.

You could up the clocks to audio rates and listen to the shift reg outputs.
Or build the 4051/4017 melody genereator and use the shift reg outpus as our A,B,C selectors.
Or send those through resistors(which results in varying analog voltages) into a VCO and listen to them. Any of your oscillators will be good for that, try making a slow oscillator and sending your voltage into the circuit at one of the legs of the potentiometer. The oscillator will wig out, make sure you're listening to it. If that's one of your main logic oscillators then it will flip out, good times good times.


And then your one logic gate output of interesting data gets turned into several outputs of interesting irregular data. LEDs will help visualize what's happening there.
...

Some people do 'white noise' generation with shift registers too, take some speedy signals, run them through some gates and send them through the shift reg, and then connect some of the outputs back into the gate inputs for data feedback, not sure how else to describe that.

_________________
==================
Check out the FREE Intro to Lunettas Document
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZIwOP-PR9sSZDlidzgzbV8wY3RjenJqanY&hl=en

Edit: Spelling mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
Posts: 353
Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 26

PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

basically the best advice I can give anyone is to get a breadboard and just experiment. As long as you got your power connections in place you can try pretty much anything you want.

I've had some successes with using diodes, LED's, LDR's and all kinds of parts between different pins or IC's.

And in general I think LED's are invaluable for their visual feedback of the different datastreams.

just have fun Smile

_________________
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Hunter S. Thompson
movies
noise
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
stolenfat



Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Sunny Oakland California
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

not exactly a shift register like the 4024, but definitely a form of one.
this applet shows a ripple counter really well.

http://falstad.com/circuit/e-counter8.html

(plus that whole website is suuuuuper useful and one of the best resources on the interweb)


shift registers need to be played with, honestly they allow your lunetta to just go nuts even harder.

_________________
home made noise and electronic ill-logic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kabzoer



Joined: Feb 07, 2011
Posts: 82
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I made a link for the shift register too:
wow, that's a big link...

[Edit Blue Hell: shortened it a bit]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
stolenfat



Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Sunny Oakland California
Audio files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

@ Kabzoer: Thats it my boy! Nice demo!
_________________
home made noise and electronic ill-logic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kabzoer



Joined: Feb 07, 2011
Posts: 82
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They should make a thumbs up system Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Oweng4000



Joined: Jan 28, 2011
Posts: 8
Location: Georgia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:41 am    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks guys. That falstad example really helped. Now I just have to order a bunch of these babys. Is it economically feasible to order 10 of each one of the cd4000 series?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
inlifeindeath



Joined: Apr 02, 2010
Posts: 315
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this is an option: http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_84970_-1
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
Posts: 353
Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 26

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Is it economically feasible to order 10 of each one of the cd4000 series?

In theory, yes. In practice it's a lot smarter to buy when you need them. I started with "ten of each" of the most common IC's and I still have a lot of them left without any real use for them. IC's are light and cheap, if you can find a webshop wich will ship them through regular letter sized mail you can get the IC you want in under 2 days, and it's cheaper than having a huge stockpile laying around.

_________________
There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Hunter S. Thompson
movies
noise
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Top Top



Joined: Feb 02, 2010
Posts: 198
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Shift registors? What are they for? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oweng4000 wrote:
Just wondering, what do shift registers do as far as audio? Everyone has one in their lunetta, but i'm very confused as to what they do.


4031 is a fun and easy to understand one - basically it is a fixed 64 step clocked logic delay. It can be looped back into itself to make 64 step repeating patterns (on/off values only).



Not the most common, but a few places do carry it.

_________________
A. MAGIC PULSEWAVE ELECTRONICS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 247
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i've used the 4031 as a weird buffer repeater thing for glitchy effects and also as a 64 step sequencer, if you AND gate the output with the incoming clock. 64 step patterns! sure beats a 4017... although you dont have access to each bit separately it's good for longer patterns.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Top Top



Joined: Feb 02, 2010
Posts: 198
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Psyingo wrote:
if you AND gate the output with the incoming clock


Curious about this part - why do you need to AND gate the output with the clock?

_________________
A. MAGIC PULSEWAVE ELECTRONICS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 247
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Top Top wrote:
Psyingo wrote:
if you AND gate the output with the incoming clock


Curious about this part - why do you need to AND gate the output with the clock?


for triggering of sounds, say a drum circuit or an envelope generator.. or to clock a shift register or counter or another sequencer; as examples. otherwise sequential ON steps will 'bleed' together as one long gate instead of discrete steps.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Top Top



Joined: Feb 02, 2010
Posts: 198
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Psyingo wrote:

for triggering of sounds, say a drum circuit or an envelope generator.. or to clock a shift register or counter or another sequencer; as examples. otherwise sequential ON steps will 'bleed' together as one long gate instead of discreet steps.


Oh, right on, I get it now. I have used more as a "realtime" recorder, like in the video, so holding high states for their duration is good in that case.

_________________
A. MAGIC PULSEWAVE ELECTRONICS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 247
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Top Top wrote:
Psyingo wrote:

for triggering of sounds, say a drum circuit or an envelope generator.. or to clock a shift register or counter or another sequencer; as examples. otherwise sequential ON steps will 'bleed' together as one long gate instead of discreet steps.


Oh, right on, I get it now. I have used more as a "realtime" recorder, like in the video, so holding high states for their duration is good in that case.


if you want to use it as a realtime recorder for percussion i would suggest the AND gate method. holding the note would actually provide retriggering.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: mosc
Page 1 of 1 [22 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use