Author |
Message |
Captain Biscuits
Joined: Jun 11, 2010 Posts: 116 Location: Northampton, UK
|
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:00 pm Post subject:
First tentative steps - where to start? |
|
|
Well, I've lurked and I've read and I've read and lurked some more until my head is full to bursting. I think it's fair to say that this doesn't come naturally to me - I'm a bit baffled.
So far I have made a bundle of Music From Outer Space modules and am building a Thomas Henry Quad Bass ++. I want lots of counterpoint beats and some randomness and have seen RF's Lunetta and Quad here & on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6kcG6YV_1M). Quite simply, I want one - it does just what I want and sounds fantastic.
So I'm looking for where to start. I think I can run Lunetta stuff off my MFOS 12 volt supply, I assume that audio is audio and so I can use my modular oscillators as inputs and send out of my Quad back to the modular.
I guess my question is "what is inside RF's box of tricks and how does it make such wonderful triggers and control voltages?" As I have a bunch of modules already I'm not looking to make a purist Lunetta from scratch (yet . . . give it time & who knows what I might end up creating!) What I want most just now is to be able to create a wild tribal racket with my quad and modular.
Any advice about what is likely to be the best place to start would be very welcome.
Hopefully once I've started and made something work I might begin to understand what it is that I'm doing
Many thanks
Ian |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1502 Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
|
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Hi Ian - Glad you enjoyed the vids...
I'll be glad to answer any questions you might have. I think with what you've already built you won't have any problems coming up with some great stuff yourself.
The quad bass++ and logic machine has, (If I recall right off hand..).
3 40106 oscillators as clocks
a 4094 shift register
a 4024 divider
a binary counter
a stripped down version of the CGS Pulse divider
Also, 2 R/2R ladders for control of pitch of the drums
That CGS pulse divider is your friend
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/pic/schem_cgs36_pulse_divider.gif
I'd put another one of those in if I built it again. It takes 4 4017's, but really does good stuff for drums. I left off the op-amps and output transistors - didn't need them for the drum machine.
I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with!
bruce _________________ www.sdiy.org/rfeng
"I want to make these sounds that go wooo-wooo-ah-woo-woo.”
(Herb Deutsch to Bob Moog ~1963) |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Captain Biscuits
Joined: Jun 11, 2010 Posts: 116 Location: Northampton, UK
|
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:01 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Thanks Bruce, that is absolutely fantastic. I think getting an answer that clear and comprehensive in 24 minutes must be some sort of record!
I'll read and inwardly digest Ken's pulse divider page. I was wondering about buying a pcb for that one but will try strip boarding it & see how I go. Then I can order a nice goodie bag of chips now I know what I'm after. I think there are a couple of hex Schmitts around so here I can make a start with them whilst I'm getting hold of the rest. Oh, and finish the quad, make the panel and box and order some banana plugs - I'm using 1/4" jacks for the modular but that is going to get silly for this! There are a few more MFOS pcbs waiting to be built too, and a Klee. I also have one of those excellent plastic kid's drums you were using which I look forward to canibalising soon then it will be car-boot sale season here and I can pick up some more toys to play with and incorporate so I'm not going to be short of things to do for a while
I'll let you know how I do (it will take substantially longer than 24 minutes though!)
Cheers
Ian |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
tjookum
Joined: May 25, 2010 Posts: 360 Location: Netherlands
Audio files: 26
|
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:32 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Quote: | Thanks Bruce, that is absolutely fantastic. I think getting an answer that clear and comprehensive in 24 minutes must be some sort of record!
|
That's Bruce for ya, he has helped me out countless times.
Welcome to lunetta's Ian Wilson. I think Bruce has layed out an awesome machine there and it's definately a great place to start but I would recommend looking around a little on the forum. There are a lot of different ways of constructing a lunetta and they are all equally interesting.
Looking at what you want I would definately suggest starting with things like the 4094 shift register and a couple of clocks and gates. That will give you some very interesting triggers to use in your modular.
Good luck and Im looking forward to see what you come up with. _________________ There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
Hunter S. Thompson
movies
noise |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
RF
Joined: Mar 23, 2007 Posts: 1502 Location: Northern Minnesota, USA
Audio files: 28
|
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:58 am Post subject:
|
|
|
One more thing, Ian -
I also had two XOR gates built into the drum machine. I use those often for interesting patterns. _________________ www.sdiy.org/rfeng
"I want to make these sounds that go wooo-wooo-ah-woo-woo.”
(Herb Deutsch to Bob Moog ~1963) |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Captain Biscuits
Joined: Jun 11, 2010 Posts: 116 Location: Northampton, UK
|
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:51 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Sorry to ask what is probably a silly question but I'm seeing people running Lunettas off a wide variety of voltages.
Am I right in thinking that the voltage you are running these chips off will determine the voltage needed to trigger the chips? I'd like to be able to use MFOS modules for some of my triggering but was hoping to run off my 12v supply. Is this likely to cause me any problems?
I'm hoping to get some chips ordered in the next week or two - need to watch the pennies a bit having just spent all my money on a second hand oscilloscope off ebay
I do like sndbyte's black box of pretty things. I'm assuming those are just PCB sockets. Looks like a lot cheaper than loads of jacks and sockets so I might give it a try, for now at least.
I've got Bruce's kid's drum working through Ray's peizzo trigger & CV & it's working rather nicely - worth a try.
Many thanks for all the help.
Cheers
Ian |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Psyingo
Joined: Jun 11, 2009 Posts: 248 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:47 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Ian, you are correct in assuming that the voltage the chips operate at will determine the voltage that will trigger the chips. usually i think its something like a change around half the supply voltage that will do it?
if you check the datasheets of the cmos 4000 series it is usualy recommended that you don't go over 18v. also, negative voltages are the enemy of this series, so put a diode on your inputs (and outputs too if you think you need it).
running it off your mfos supply is fine, as long as you don't give it any of the aforementioned negative voltages.
i've gotten certain cmos chips on ebay for fairly cheap shipped from hongkong, others, like the 4049/4069 are more expensive. |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
sndbyte
Joined: Jun 26, 2009 Posts: 119 Location: sf
|
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
When I first started to build one of these I read the Intro to Lunettas Document and also followed the Absolute Beginners thread. I then just bought a bunch of chips from Futurlec and experimented on a breadboard before soldering everything on a pcb. I also printed out some data sheets for the basic logic chips. It was pretty fun to figure out how they worked and how to solder the chips/resistors/leds into such a small space on a pcb.
I'd really recommend the 2 below threads. They were very helpful.
I almost forgot, I've been using just a 9 volt battery to power these circuits (with a 7805 voltage regulator).
Intro to Lunettas - Document :
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-40243-25.html&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight
the absolute beginners thread:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-42357.html |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010 Posts: 308 Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
|
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:40 am Post subject:
|
|
|
Hey Ian,
I run my lunetta off a regulated wallwart at 12 volt with no problems. I used to run it at 5 volts as well, but I went a little higher for voodoo's sake. I'm experimenting more with cv sources and sometimes 5v ain't enough.
Let us know how thingsunfold . _________________ Zontar Prevails! |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
Captain Biscuits
Joined: Jun 11, 2010 Posts: 116 Location: Northampton, UK
|
Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:27 pm Post subject:
|
|
|
Many thanks for those helpful replies - sorry to bother people asking about supply voltages - I should have searched more to find an answer to a question which it turns out has been asked (and adequately answered) a fair few times before.
Anyway - I have a 40106 breadboarded with an led, a 10uF cap and a 1M resistor which is triggering my ADSR nice and slowly every 6 seconds which feels like a good start. I'm far more chuffed than an adult ought to be with such a simple circuit
It's running off a 9 volt battery at the moment but I can play with power options as I go. Oscilloscope says I'm getting a trigger of about 7.5v
I'll get a nice selection of chips from Rapid next week, make up the 40106 onto stripboard and start playing with logic. I've downloaded a bundle of data sheets to dig through too, though I might save reading them until I have some chips to play with.
Thanks again for the patient help and advice. I'll get there eventually!
All the best
Ian |
|
Back to top
|
|
|
|