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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
First tentative steps - where to start?
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Captain Biscuits



Joined: Jun 11, 2010
Posts: 116
Location: Northampton, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: First tentative steps - where to start? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, I've lurked and I've read and I've read and lurked some more until my head is full to bursting. I think it's fair to say that this doesn't come naturally to me - I'm a bit baffled.

So far I have made a bundle of Music From Outer Space modules and am building a Thomas Henry Quad Bass ++. I want lots of counterpoint beats and some randomness and have seen RF's Lunetta and Quad here & on YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6kcG6YV_1M). Quite simply, I want one - it does just what I want and sounds fantastic.

So I'm looking for where to start. I think I can run Lunetta stuff off my MFOS 12 volt supply, I assume that audio is audio and so I can use my modular oscillators as inputs and send out of my Quad back to the modular.

I guess my question is "what is inside RF's box of tricks and how does it make such wonderful triggers and control voltages?" As I have a bunch of modules already I'm not looking to make a purist Lunetta from scratch (yet . . . give it time & who knows what I might end up creating!) What I want most just now is to be able to create a wild tribal racket with my quad and modular.

Any advice about what is likely to be the best place to start would be very welcome.

Hopefully once I've started and made something work I might begin to understand what it is that I'm doing Smile

Many thanks

Ian
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Ian - Glad you enjoyed the vids...
I'll be glad to answer any questions you might have. I think with what you've already built you won't have any problems coming up with some great stuff yourself.

The quad bass++ and logic machine has, (If I recall right off hand..).
3 40106 oscillators as clocks
a 4094 shift register
a 4024 divider
a binary counter
a stripped down version of the CGS Pulse divider
Also, 2 R/2R ladders for control of pitch of the drums

That CGS pulse divider is your friend Smile
http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/pic/schem_cgs36_pulse_divider.gif
I'd put another one of those in if I built it again. It takes 4 4017's, but really does good stuff for drums. I left off the op-amps and output transistors - didn't need them for the drum machine.

I'll look forward to seeing what you come up with!

bruce

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Captain Biscuits



Joined: Jun 11, 2010
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Location: Northampton, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Bruce, that is absolutely fantastic. I think getting an answer that clear and comprehensive in 24 minutes must be some sort of record!

I'll read and inwardly digest Ken's pulse divider page. I was wondering about buying a pcb for that one but will try strip boarding it & see how I go. Then I can order a nice goodie bag of chips now I know what I'm after. I think there are a couple of hex Schmitts around so here I can make a start with them whilst I'm getting hold of the rest. Oh, and finish the quad, make the panel and box and order some banana plugs - I'm using 1/4" jacks for the modular but that is going to get silly for this! There are a few more MFOS pcbs waiting to be built too, and a Klee. I also have one of those excellent plastic kid's drums you were using which I look forward to canibalising soon then it will be car-boot sale season here and I can pick up some more toys to play with and incorporate so I'm not going to be short of things to do for a while Smile

I'll let you know how I do (it will take substantially longer than 24 minutes though!)

Cheers

Ian
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Thanks Bruce, that is absolutely fantastic. I think getting an answer that clear and comprehensive in 24 minutes must be some sort of record!

That's Bruce for ya, he has helped me out countless times.

Welcome to lunetta's Ian Wilson. I think Bruce has layed out an awesome machine there and it's definately a great place to start but I would recommend looking around a little on the forum. There are a lot of different ways of constructing a lunetta and they are all equally interesting.

Looking at what you want I would definately suggest starting with things like the 4094 shift register and a couple of clocks and gates. That will give you some very interesting triggers to use in your modular.

Good luck and Im looking forward to see what you come up with.

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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

One more thing, Ian -
I also had two XOR gates built into the drum machine. I use those often for interesting patterns.

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Captain Biscuits



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry to ask what is probably a silly question but I'm seeing people running Lunettas off a wide variety of voltages.

Am I right in thinking that the voltage you are running these chips off will determine the voltage needed to trigger the chips? I'd like to be able to use MFOS modules for some of my triggering but was hoping to run off my 12v supply. Is this likely to cause me any problems?

I'm hoping to get some chips ordered in the next week or two - need to watch the pennies a bit having just spent all my money on a second hand oscilloscope off ebay Smile

I do like sndbyte's black box of pretty things. I'm assuming those are just PCB sockets. Looks like a lot cheaper than loads of jacks and sockets so I might give it a try, for now at least.

I've got Bruce's kid's drum working through Ray's peizzo trigger & CV & it's working rather nicely - worth a try.

Many thanks for all the help.

Cheers

Ian
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Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ian, you are correct in assuming that the voltage the chips operate at will determine the voltage that will trigger the chips. usually i think its something like a change around half the supply voltage that will do it?

if you check the datasheets of the cmos 4000 series it is usualy recommended that you don't go over 18v. also, negative voltages are the enemy of this series, so put a diode on your inputs (and outputs too if you think you need it).

running it off your mfos supply is fine, as long as you don't give it any of the aforementioned negative voltages.

i've gotten certain cmos chips on ebay for fairly cheap shipped from hongkong, others, like the 4049/4069 are more expensive.
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sndbyte



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

When I first started to build one of these I read the Intro to Lunettas Document and also followed the Absolute Beginners thread. I then just bought a bunch of chips from Futurlec and experimented on a breadboard before soldering everything on a pcb. I also printed out some data sheets for the basic logic chips. It was pretty fun to figure out how they worked and how to solder the chips/resistors/leds into such a small space on a pcb.

I'd really recommend the 2 below threads. They were very helpful.

I almost forgot, I've been using just a 9 volt battery to power these circuits (with a 7805 voltage regulator).


Intro to Lunettas - Document :
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-40243-25.html&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight

the absolute beginners thread:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-42357.html
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Draal



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Ian,

I run my lunetta off a regulated wallwart at 12 volt with no problems. I used to run it at 5 volts as well, but I went a little higher for voodoo's sake. I'm experimenting more with cv sources and sometimes 5v ain't enough.

Let us know how thingsunfold Smile .

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Captain Biscuits



Joined: Jun 11, 2010
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Location: Northampton, UK

PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Many thanks for those helpful replies - sorry to bother people asking about supply voltages - I should have searched more to find an answer to a question which it turns out has been asked (and adequately answered) a fair few times before.

Anyway - I have a 40106 breadboarded with an led, a 10uF cap and a 1M resistor which is triggering my ADSR nice and slowly every 6 seconds which feels like a good start. I'm far more chuffed than an adult ought to be with such a simple circuit Smile

It's running off a 9 volt battery at the moment but I can play with power options as I go. Oscilloscope says I'm getting a trigger of about 7.5v

I'll get a nice selection of chips from Rapid next week, make up the 40106 onto stripboard and start playing with logic. I've downloaded a bundle of data sheets to dig through too, though I might save reading them until I have some chips to play with.

Thanks again for the patient help and advice. I'll get there eventually!

All the best

Ian
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