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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
NMG2 Open Source Editor
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brunov



Joined: Aug 03, 2011
Posts: 199
Location: delft
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 2

PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Jean-Phillipe,

I'm glad you succeeded in installing the editor and the driver!

Yes, with the current version isn't ready to work with Jaws yet, I'm working on a new version but that takes some time, I don't want to hurry things and make a lot of mistakes.

But I can explain a couple of things of the current version, so you maybe understand a bit better how the application is layed out.

The layout is as follows:

- On top is the menu bar, that will be the most important part for you. The changes that I'm making in the new version involve adding a couple of menu items.

- Under the menu bar is a "status" bar, that's where you found the checkboxes "on line" and "perf mode". When the check box "on line" is checked it means that the USB connection with the G2 is o.k. so that one is important: Is this checkbox checked?
The checkbox "perf mode" indicates if the G2 is in performance mode or not.

- Under the status bar are four "slot" bars: A B C and D. These bars contain controls for the four slots of the G2: the patch name, the current variation, volume and mute settings, number of voices and morph dials. These controls are all graphical so sadly Jaws will not be of any use there. I'll will give you an alternative through the menu bar for these.

- Under the four slot bars are the actual patching area's containing the modules and the cables. The upper patching area is the VA and the lower one the FX section. These are again all graphical. so no use for Jaws. Here also I'm busy putting the functionality in the menu bar.

So back to the menu, at the moment there are 5 main menu items:
1. File : Loading and saving patches and performances from and to disk

2. Edit : This menu is for manipulation of modules, copy, paste delete and so on.

3. View : With the view menu you can open up some other windows. Patch settings, parameter pages and edit menu are not of any use for you yet, because they are mostly graphical, but maybe you can try out if the patch manager works with Jaws.

4. Midi settings, not important right now

5. Settings, hopefully we don't have to go there yet.

So here is something we could test:

With the patch manager you can load patches. It's a window with four tabs: "Perf. (disk)" for loading performances from disk, "Patch (disk)" for loading patches from disk, "Perf." to load performances stored internally on the G2, "Patch" to load patches stored internally on the G2. After you have selected a tab it lists all the patches in a listbox. Hopefully you can read these using Jaws.

So, just for testing, something we could try out if you can load patches that are internally stored on the G2 using the patch manager.

- Press Ctrl-B to open the patch manager or using the View menu and select Patch manager.
- Used Ctrl-Arrow Right to go to tab "Patch"
- Use Tab to go to the list control
- Select an item out of the list using Arrow down (or up)
- Press Enter to load the selected patch.

Let me know if you can load a patch this way....

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My old OS NMG2 editor : http://sourceforge.net/projects/nmg2editor/?source=directory
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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



Joined: Apr 07, 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Paris France
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear Brunov,
Jaws doesn't behave the way it should in this window.
I was able to load sounds by using some jaws tricks I know, but I cannot access the patch list using the normal jaws key commands.
I included a screenshot to my post for you to see if everything looks normal.
Thanks again,


nmg2_jpr.zip
 Description:
My screenshot

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 Filename:  nmg2_jpr.zip
 Filesize:  7.07 KB
 Downloaded:  98 Time(s)


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brunov



Joined: Aug 03, 2011
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, I see that you selected a patch called 1CycleComboPluckTK in the window, so that looks o.k.

There may be a problem with the software developement tool "Delphi" I use. I have searched the internet and it seems there are some issues with Delphi in combination with Jaws. The problem I have that Jaws doesn't speak out the contents of controls.

For example in an edit box, Jaws wil say that the cursor is in an "edit" but it doesn't speak out what's in the edit box. On the other hand, it seems that there are other Delphi applications used with Jaws, so there should be a solution for this.

I have a few questions:

- You say "I cannot access the patch list using the normal Jaws key commands", what are the normal Jaws key commands?

- Can you read the patch names in the list?

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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear Brunov,
You wrote:

"You say "I cannot access the patch list using the normal Jaws key commands", what are the normal Jaws key commands?"

They are the one you suggested, normally everything should work with the arrow keys and the tab key.
When this doesn't work, I can explore the screen by holding 0 and pressingthe - on the numeric keypad with numlock off.
There might be another way around the problem, a very nice little freeware called hotspot clicker. http://www.hotspotclicker.org
In fact this might save you time making your editor fully jaws compatible.
Best,

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brunov



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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, and can you read the patch names? Because that doesn't work with me...
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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



Joined: Apr 07, 2005
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G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can do it using the trick mention in my previous message, and the arrow keys for exploring. I think it only shows what is visible on the screen.
Best
brunov wrote:
Ok, and can you read the patch names? Because that doesn't work with me...

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brunov



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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok Jean-Phillipe,

so it seems that you can read the menus and the checkboxes, but the other controls you can't read, only with a little trick in Jaws. That's a bit of a setback...

Probably the people at Delphi have altered these controls a bit so they don't behave like the standard windows controls anymore.

If I can't make it work, I'll just make some extra menu's with which you can select patches from the banks...or we'll think of something else

Give me a couple of days and I'll prepare a new version so we can test a bit more.

Regards
Bruno

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brunov



Joined: Aug 03, 2011
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jean Philippe, just to let you know how things are going:

I think I've made some good progess, the problem about the control's text that isn't recognized by Jaws seems to be solved. It has to do with the naming of "windows classes", for example, windows names an edit as "edit' and Delphi as "TEdit", that's why Jaws is confused. Strangely if I rename the control as "DEdit", Jaws recognizes it again as an Edit box...

I also made most of the menu's and popup menus, I've tested this just now and it's possible to make a complete patch, adding modules, adding and deleting cables, changing parameters, all with shortcut keys and menu's.

I think that works quite well, the hard part is that you have to remember what modules are in the patch and what modules are connected to each other. But I guess you are better trained in that then I am. We'll just have to test it.

It will take another couple of days, because tomorow I have some other engagement and I've made quite a few changes that I want to test before i can make a release.

Regards
Bruno

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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear Brunov,
This is fantastic.
Take your time as I'll be going for a few gigs until next weak.
All the best,

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brunov



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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Jean Philippe,

I've made a version 0.23 that should be more compatible with Jaws, you can download it here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/nmg2editor/files/v0.23/nmg2editor_bin_0.23.zip/download

So download the zip file and extract it to a new folder. You can delete the old version. If you start the editor, you will again get a warning from the firewall.

I also wrote a little help file, that lists all the shortcut keys and a short explanation of the application layout, which parts are Jaws compatible and which are not.

The help file is named "NMG2 Keyboard shortcuts.txt", it's also in the zip file.

At the bottom of the help file is an example of a simple patch that is made with only with the shortcut keys, so when you're ready to do some testing, maybe you can start trying that out. I'm really curious how it goes.

Regards
B.


NMG2 Keyboard shortcuts.txt
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 Filename:  NMG2 Keyboard shortcuts.txt
 Filesize:  6.36 KB
 Downloaded:  91 Time(s)


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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear Brunov,
I ran into strange trouble.
This morning, I lunched your new editors version and everything was fine, I was ready to test your step-by-step instructions for creating a patch.
Then, I had a little music to do so I went to Sonar and did my thing, and then just by curiosity, checked if the G2 appeared in my devices so I could play it with sonar. I was disappointed to see that it didn't. So, I went to the original Clavia editor to see if there was anything to change in their. Found nothing, and then returned back to your editor. There was nothing jaws could see anymore, even things as simple as going through menus stopped working.
Useless to say I turned the G2 on and off before changing editors but it didn't help.
Restarted the computer, no change.
And the weirdest thing is that even your editor's previews version now behaves the same.
Here is a new screenshot that I hope will help you figure that out.
All the best,
JPR.


nmg2_jpr.zip
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  nmg2_jpr.zip
 Filesize:  22.73 KB
 Downloaded:  94 Time(s)


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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Jean-Phillipe,

what I an see in the screenshot, is the following:

Slot A: no patch loaded
Slot B: Vintajpoly_tk_te
Slot C: Analogue Perc Sy
Slot D: CryMe

Are these the default patches that are loaded on startup?

Slot D is selected but I don't see any modules or cables.

In the statusbar at the bottom I see the message "Request patch bank", so at the moment that you took the screenshot the editor was still waiting for messages from the G2.

I also see some strange text in the some of morph buttons : "Overflow"

So, from what I can see it could be that the editor is waiting for some messages that never comes or there is an error decoding a patch. If the editor hangs Jaws probably won't recognize it anymore.

Is the editor totally non-responsive or can you still for example quit the application with Alt-F4?

B.

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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



Joined: Apr 07, 2005
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G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Brunov,
I can quit the application withalt F for, but it's about the only thing I can do for now.
Why do you think the editor is waiting for something, even though I tried it Several times, including after restarting the computer. anyway to reset that?
Best,
JP

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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't know yet, twothings we could check first:

Possibility #1:

Are you sure that the original clavia editor and the os editor are not both active? Because the usb interface only allows for one application at the same time to make use of it.
What applications are active? I just can't make out the taskbar on your screenshot.

Possibility #2:

It could also be there is a problem in the default performance that is initially loaded from the G2.

When you start the editor, the first thing it does is load the default performance from the G2.

When there is an error in decoding the performance message, the application times out waiting for it and may be unresponsive because it failed to initialize.

Is there a chance that you can start the original editor and save the performance to disk and upload it here so I can check it out?

B.

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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear Brunov,
This is crazy.
The Clavia editor works normally. With the help of a sighted friend, I Fiddled with the G2but I couldn't find a way to save a performance. So I clicked on "new performance", hoping that it would solve the problem, and went back to your editor.
I got the same thing, request bank, the hourglass, and nothing else.
I just got an idea, is there a maximum number of banks your editor can deal with at this time? One thing that has changed between before the problem started and now is that I loaded an extra bank from the Clavia editor. I now have 10 banks.
What really strikes me is that the problem is exactly the same if I use the version you just released or the previous one, so I don't even know if the problem comes from your editor or the Synth itself, but then why does the Clavia editor appear to work normally?
This is crazy.
Best,

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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ha, yes, well, now I want really want to find out what's going on!

Let's go through this step by step:

First to download the performance using the clavia edtor:

1. close all the editors
2. restart the g2
3. start the clavia editor, the editor will download the default performance automatically
4. Go to the file menu Alt+F, and select "save as", to save the performance to disk. (You can also try Alt+S)
then upload the performance here, the extension should be "prf2".

Let's do this first before we try something else.

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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here you go.


Empty Perf..prf2
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Empty Perf..prf2
 Filesize:  2.62 KB
 Downloaded:  212 Time(s)


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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, I've tried out your performance. I have no problem loading it.

There are 4 empty patches in the performance.

Now let's try the OS editor "offline", just to check if Jaws will respond correctly when you try out all the menu's, so:

1. close the editor
2. turn off the g2
3. start the OS editor.

You will get a messagebox "No G2 device found". Press Enter.

First you could try if Jaws will respond correctly when you try out the menu's.

The second thing is to try and load the performance you just send, using the file menu "Load performance", and then check if Jaws still responds correctly.

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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh no!
It has nothing to do with Jaws.
My sighted friend has exactly the same problems and cannot use your editor except if the G2 is off or disconnected.
JP

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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, and you don't have a problem when you load the performance in the OS editor when the G2 is not connected????

If so, then I think we should try and reinstall the libusb driver.

First we could try this:

1. Close the editor
2. Restart the G2
3. Go to the LinUSB-Win32 directory through the start menu
4. Start the "Filter wizard"
5. Choose "Remove all device filters" (3rd option)
6. Close the wizard
7. Restart the computer (Just to make sure)
8. Restart the Filter wizard and install it again on the Clavia USB driver (the G2 should be on)
9. Start the OS editor before you start anything else and tell me what happens

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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JP,

Let me know tomorrow how it went, I have to go to sleep now, can't stay up late like all you musicians do everyday Wink
My second option would be to reinstall libusb completely. And another option would be something like teamviewer, with wich you can invite me on your computer so I can better see what's going on, maybe with help from your sighted friend.

Nightynight

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Jean-Philippe Rykiel



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear Brunov,
nothing seems to work.
First, I did everything you said about libUSB, following every step carefully.
Then, I connected the G2 to another USB port on my computer, which made me go through the newfound device thing, and of course the filter wizard once more.
Then, I went to my firewall settings and removed all the exception it had created for your editor. It had about six of them.
If you want to investigate some more, we sure can have a team viewer session together. Otherwise, I can always try and restore my system. Then we could see if the problem lies in the computer or in the G2.
Best,
JPR

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Now I restored my computer and reinstalled everything from scratch, and the problem remains.
Interesting isn't it?
Hope I didn't brake my friend's G2, or he will kill me!
Is there a total reset?
Best,

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brunov



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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JP,

In my waking hour, I had to think about what you said earlier:

Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote:

I just got an idea, is there a maximum number of banks your editor can deal with at this time? One thing that has changed between before the problem started and now is that I loaded an extra bank from the Clavia editor. I now have 10 banks.


The problem must indeed be in de loading of the banks from the G2. We tried everything else: USB is ok, no problem in loading the performance.

It would also explain why the previous version has exactly the same problem.

The editor doesn't have a limit on the number of banks, it's a dynamically extendable list, but the bank load has a bit of a complicated message structure: the messages are linked to each other and every message has a number of parameters that tell how to ineterpret the next message.

So I must have made a mistake there somewhere.

What I'm going to do is to make a new editor version that logs these messages and that you can save to disk, so you can upload it here.

So no need to reset anything...

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JP

I've made a new version from which you can save the log file:

https://sourceforge.net/projects/nmg2editor/files/v0.23/nmg2editor_bin_0.23.zip/download

I've also enabled the logging by default in this update.

After starting the G2 and then starting the editor, wait a bit and then in the menu choose "Settings" and "View log".

There's a button on that window "Save log file". You can save this file and upload it here.

We can also try out the teamviewer session if you prefer but it will have to wait because I have to go to the dentistright know Sad

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