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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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 Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | So if Seq1 is set to play 4 steps, Seq2 is set to play 6 steps, Seq3 is set to play 2 steps and Seq4 is set to play 8 steps, you'd end up with this 20 step pattern: 1234-123456-12-12345678.
Having a hard time trying to figure out how to do that. Thought I had it figured out a couple times, but none of my schemes work in the end. |
If you use 2 x 4 step sequential switches driven simultaneously and a divider it should work
the clock pulse comes in and splits 2 ways, to the divider and also to
the first sequential switch i/o used in this case as an input . the one to the sequential sw i/o is the one that should be delayed to allow for the switching time of the sequential switches.
the 4 other i/o's of this switch are used as outputs and go to the clock in's of the 4 symplseq's, the output of the divider goes to the clock in of both sequential switches to drive them simultaneously. 4 i/o's of the 2nd sequential switch are used as inputs to poll the cv outs of the symplseq's to derive a master cv out on the 1st i/o used as an output
as this is occuring simultaneous to the sequencer's clocking only the output of the current sequencer is outputed.
the gates can just be or'ed together using diodes to resolve a master gate out as there is only ever one gate active at a time
this is the way i worked it out
and i sure hope as hell i got it right and didnt miss anything 
edit:
if the divider used is voltage controllable you should be able to vary the number of steps each sequencer puts out in turn by sending the output of another sequencer or other +cv outputting module into its divide by cv input as the number of clock pulses sent to each sequencer is determined directly from the current divide by value
so at divide by 32 say it will run the first sequencer through all its steps 4
times if the divide by cv is then changed to make the divider say divide by 6 the next sequencer will then only step 6 times and so on
note when all the sequencer's have been gone through it will continue from the next step on from the last step used on each sequencer
ie : if on seq 3 the last time round was on step 4 the next time round
it will be on step 5.... unless of course you have sent a reset to that sequencer in the mean time then it will restart from step one again
i have included for that ability in my build.
not quite matrix sequencing but i think the number of steps one could go through without actually repeating an exact phrase of 32 notes in length would be quite a large number.
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emdot_ambient
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
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Location: Frederick, MD
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:48 am Post subject:
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| diablojoy wrote: | | Quote: | So if Seq1 is set to play 4 steps, Seq2 is set to play 6 steps, Seq3 is set to play 2 steps and Seq4 is set to play 8 steps, you'd end up with this 20 step pattern: 1234-123456-12-12345678.
Having a hard time trying to figure out how to do that. Thought I had it figured out a couple times, but none of my schemes work in the end. |
If you use 2 x 4 step sequential switches driven simultaneously and a divider it should work
the clock pulse comes in and splits 2 ways, to the divider and also to
the first sequential switch i/o used in this case as an input . the one to the sequential sw i/o is the one that should be delayed to allow for the switching time of the sequential switches.
the 4 other i/o's of this switch are used as outputs and go to the clock in's of the 4 symplseq's, the output of the divider goes to the clock in of both sequential switches to drive them simultaneously. 4 i/o's of the 2nd sequential switch are used as inputs to poll the cv outs of the symplseq's to derive a master cv out on the 1st i/o used as an output
as this is occuring simultaneous to the sequencer's clocking only the output of the current sequencer is outputed.
the gates can just be or'ed together using diodes to resolve a master gate out as there is only ever one gate active at a time... |
That made absolutely no sense, until I sketched it out while going through your description line by line. Now I get it!
I always forget about the seqswitches being bi-directional (4 in, 1 out or 1 in, 4 out).
I'm not sure I know how to do the diode thing on the gates, but I'll get to that when it becomes an issue. Also, I'm trying to set this up very flexibly using a lot of normalization, so the matrix sequencer thing might not be something I set up in the normalization scheme, but will be able to do with patching.
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emdot_ambient
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
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Location: Frederick, MD
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:04 am Post subject:
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Hang on...actually that doesn't work for what I was talking about. It's an interesting set up but not really what I was after.
My idea was to somehow allow Seq1 to play all if its steps, whether you have it set to play 1, 2, 3...8 steps before moving on to play Seq2.
If I understand your set up, the move from Seq1 to 2 to 3, etc., is determined by the Divider's timer, not the # of steps selected in the currently playing Seq. I.e., the switch will come regularly no matter where you are in the currently playing sequencer.
I've been trying to figure out something based on the Reset pulse of each sequencer, as that gets triggered when the Seq is finished playing one pass...but haven't been able to come up with a solution yet.
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Mongo1
Joined: Aug 11, 2011
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:41 am Post subject:
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This seems like a natural place to use an Arduino or PIC. The thing that keeps hanging me up is figuring out what the user interface would look like.
Gary |
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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:15 am Post subject:
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| diablojoy wrote: | the concern i had with propagation delays i resolved by delaying the switched clock pulses in relation to the clock pulses sent to the 4017[ 4 sections of a cd40106 in series giving roughly 240nano seconds of delay ]
controlling the sequential switch as the DG412 switching time could allow
enough of a clock pulse through to step each SympleSEQ twice before
actually switching to the next sequential switch step
hope that makes sense |
of course, however, in vito i don't have any problems to solve here. 
it just works: sending the clock to a multiple, and then to the seqswitches I/O and clock.
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fonik
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emdot_ambient
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fonik
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fonik
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Mongo1
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | why using a seqswitch for mixing the CVs? a mixer would do. or am i missing something... |
If you use a mixer you'll add the control voltages from multiple sequencers. Probably not what's wanted. Although it would actually work in some applications....
Gary |
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emdot_ambient
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject:
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| fonik wrote: | | why using a seqswitch for mixing the CVs? a mixer would do. or am i missing something... |
Do these sequencers continue to send out a CV if they're not being clocked? If not, then you're right, a mixer would work fine in this mode.
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Mongo1
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | Do these sequencers continue to send out a CV if they're not being clocked? |
I think so - most sequencers just keep the last selected voltage on the output. That way you can have long decay times without worrying about the CV disappearing.
Gary |
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fonik
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:15 pm Post subject:
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emdot wrote
| Quote: | | Do these sequencers continue to send out a CV if they're not being clocked? |
that was the theory i worked off from the begining
hence the sequential switch for cv's
emdot wrote
| Quote: | | Oh...maybe that's the answer...Run all the resets from the Sequencers through a mixer circuit and have THEM clock the first Seqswitch. Since only one Seq is playing at a time, the reset of that sequencer will send the clock signal of when to switch the master clock over to the next sequencer. |
good thinking but not quite right the cv will end up out of sync to the clocked sequencers you would need to clock the cv switch from the resets also i think that may work
fonik wrote
| Quote: | of course, however, in vito i don't have any problems to solve here.
it just works: sending the clock to a multiple, and then to the seqswitches I/O and clock. |
ah perhaps i have been overly cautious then good to know
In theory it looked very likely to be a problem
emdot wrote
| Quote: | | If I understand your set up, the move from Seq1 to 2 to 3, etc., is determined by the Divider's timer, not the # of steps selected in the currently playing Seq. I.e., the switch will come regularly no matter where you are in the currently playing sequencer. |
yes the move across from sequencer to sequencer is directly dependant on the dividers value at divide by one it will move across the sequencers
one by one at divide by 2 each sequencer will step twice before the next
sequencer steps at divide by 8 each sequencer will step through to its end
personally i think its a feature as the the divider is voltage controllable
very long melodic lines could be set up with variations over time
while i will be able to use this module as anything from 1 to 8 separate sequencers
i do think of it more often in terms of one large single sequencer with a lot of possible variation and extra output options
edit : try thinking of the divider more in terms of as a controller deciding when and size of each small section of a larger sequence is to be played and then the circuit architecture i am employing will start to make more sense
from what i can figure it will do what you want but it can also do more
use the gate out of the next sequencer to reset the previous sequencer with the divider cv'd to divide for the required number of steps for each sequencer that will get you what you want perhaps a bit more complex but it gets you there
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Last edited by diablojoy on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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diablojoy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject:
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matthias
did not think to use a cmos switch 
I really should have as much cheaper
guess i was concentrating more on using your DG412 based switch design
oh well next time maybe 
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diablojoy
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emdot_ambient
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject:
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| diablojoy wrote: | Emdot i went over that diagram of yours 3 times before i saw the problem with it.
this should work better
only a very small change |
Funny, I was just showing my original to my wife and realized that same error, then I read your correction.
Great minds think alike....eventually!
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diablojoy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:06 pm Post subject:
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if you go with this idea
try this should be all thats needed
use similar for when tying gates together for a main gate out
edit : oh you may need a couple of sections of a cd 40106 to recondition the pulse after the diodes as there will be some effect on the pulse shape
If so try the pdf one
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EMDOT SWITCH CONCEPT.pdf |
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Paradigm X
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:13 am Post subject:
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Im just having a little chuckle at how complex you guys are making the sympleseq
great work.
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emdot_ambient
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:32 am Post subject:
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@diablojoy: Thanks! Good stuff.
| Paradigm X wrote: | | Im just having a little chuckle at how complex you guys are making the sympleseq |
"symple" to me meant inexpensive and "symple" to bend toward my own grand designs 
There are a lot of great sequencers out there, but the more full-featured ones have been designed to someone else's specs. So this is really a great project for both beginners, those who want/need only a very basic sequencer, or those who want the flexibility to make a full-featured seq to their own specs.
It's all good, y'all! 
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Paradigm X
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:04 am Post subject:
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Cool man, I hope it didnt come across like I was taking the piss! I really didnt intend that.
I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with, im pretty new at all this, and hace never owned a modular either, so all this talk is a bit over my head.
Cheers, Ben  |
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fonik
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:51 am Post subject:
Subject description: i need a FPD, or EXACT drill measurements |
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back to the frontpanel.
i need a fpd file, so the drill template does not help me at all.
i did some measurements and this is what i came up with:
horizontal pitch between the mounting holes: 2.4in
vertical pitch between the mounting holes: 1.45in (?)
horizontal pitch between potentiometers: .8in
horizontal pitch between mounting holes and potentiometers: .4in
vertical pitch between upper mounting holes and LEDs: .025in (?)
vertical pitch between LEDs and potentiometers: .55in
vertical pitch between potentiometers and switches: .75in
vertical pitch between switches and lower mounting holes: .14in (?)
mmmh. if i add the vertical pitches it does not fit...
actually the easiest way would be to measure it in the PCB cad software...
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diablojoy
Joined: Sep 07, 2008
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | mmmh. if i add the vertical pitches it does not fit... |
so you found a discrepancy too .... 2mm ?
edit : no wait thats not the one i noticed i think
the ideal 20 mm between the pots is slightly off at an average of 20.25
142 mm between the pot centres of 1 and 8 not the expected 140 mm
but with carefull measurement of the spacings on the template they appear to be not all equally spaced.
if you cant get the PCB file your only choice is to carefully measure the board itself . I have not been able to do that myself as yet.
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diablojoy
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | Im just having a little chuckle at how complex you guys are making the sympleseq
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please do take the piss it helps to keep me sane and stops me from taking this all to seriously
and you are correct it's hilarious how complex we are making this,
everybody should have a little chuckle about that.
cheers
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emdot_ambient
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:34 pm Post subject:
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I'll have a chuckle about once mine are finished...in about 4-5 years at my normal rate of project completion.
Who am I kidding? 10 years! 
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