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MIDI2CLOCK Build thread
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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:20 am    Post subject: MIDI2CLOCK Build thread
Subject description: Build questions, mods, add-ons and stuff.....
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Hi guys.

The Build DOC .pdf is finished, and is over on Matthias' site.
Post any questions and stuff about the build here, and the other post here will remain about orders etc. (keeps things neat)

Over to you Matthias...

Cheers!
Dave

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fonik



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here we go: Building Documentation now uploaded.
M2C Documentation PDF(approx. 2MB)

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tommi



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi,
I 've just received the board+UART. Great idea to ship the chip with the pins inside the pcb's holes! impossible to bend it! Thanks again Dave and Matthias!

I was looking at the documentation, the 'Resistors and diodes' section. Where it talks about the resistors to leave out for +5V pulses there is a list of some resistors positions to leave empty and some to replace resistors with wire links.
I think there is a mistake about R11, wich is mentioned in both cases...

Cheers,
tom

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tommi



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

..looking at schematics my guess is that if one wants +5V pulses:
leave empty positions: R11, 13, 15, 22, 24 and 26
and install wire link for: R12, 14, 16, 23, 25 and 27
Please confirm that..

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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

confirmed. and that's what we read on the actual schematic page as well.
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tommi



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
that's what we read on the actual schematic page as well.


d'oh brilsmurf

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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Very Happy
thank you anyways, tommi. documentation has been corrected, and i added a documentation changes log (hopefully we won't need it).

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tommi



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

brilsmurf The boring brilsmurf founded another small mistake:
On the BOM page R2 is marked to be both 4k7 and 1k. Looking at schematics his correct value would be 4k7.
Lastly, on the 1K resistor list is missing R29.

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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Tommi.

Mistakes noted........ Smile

cheers,
Dave

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fonik



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

docs updated according latest findings. thanks tommi.
M2C Documentation PDF(approx. 1.9MB)

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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Something I'm not entirely sure about from the other thread and the docs: does the board actually need it's own 5V power (to isolate it from other circuits), or can it draw from an existing 5V supply?

The docs do mention providing 5V back, but not using 5V from the bus.

As I have 5 amps of 5V available, I'd prefer to use that above doing the 10V voltage drop. But there might be a good reason not to...

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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i designed the board that you could use either the doepfer bus or the dotcom bus for providing the 5V. take a look at the jumpers.

Etaoin wrote:
Something I'm not entirely sure about from the other thread and the docs: does the board actually need it's own 5V power (to isolate it from other circuits), or can it draw from an existing 5V supply?

The docs do mention providing 5V back, but not using 5V from the bus.

As I have 5 amps of 5V available, I'd prefer to use that above doing the 10V voltage drop. But there might be a good reason not to...

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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks. I did notice the jumpers but as the documents only mentions them for feeding back 5V to the bus I though the 7805 might be necessary to isolate the board from the bus for some reason.

As I have my own bus I won't be using any of those connectors anyway, just wanted to check the separate 5V was necessary or not.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
Thanks. I did notice the jumpers but as the documents only mentions them for feeding back 5V to the bus I though the 7805 might be necessary to isolate the board from the bus for some reason.

it works both ways. we will have to amend the documentation to make this clear. thank you for the pointer...

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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Guys.

Thanks for the pointers - my fault - guess I won't get that job as a proof reader after all..... Embarassed

cheers,
Dave

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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

have got one M2C working sort of
no leds working yet but i have noticed one slight issue
It clocks my m185 seq no problem
but not my VCPS seq directly
I can clock the VCPS if i sync one of foniks master clocks
and use its output which works quite nicely but it just wont step if i go directly into the VCPS seq
very strange Confused . I also noted that the
trig out led does blink in time to the M2C even when the sequencer is not stepping
I set this M2C up for 10 volt outs
no time to go further with it for the moment
will pull the scope out on the weekend and go over it
did i mention how annoying futurlec is , order still hasn't arrived 3 weeks
after dispatch 6 weeks from when i originally placed the order Evil or Very Mad
finally cracked the sads and re-ordered the required chips for this project from element 14 .... on saturday , delivered this morning Shocked Very Happy
gotta luv that for service

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

been playing around with this after work and i gotta say this module is absolutely orsm Very Happy thanks again dave and matthias for a brilliant module
leds are now all up and running though the midi receive and active sense leds are very very dull only thru 1k resistors too, so not sure what to do there to improve them. maybe try some ultra brights instead perhaps

My VCPS-8 sequencer still wont step directly from the M2C gate or trigger output but for a short while at least it stepped from the clock output Confused WTF
seems that problem is probably with the sequencer itself though.
it steps fine from a fonik master clock which if i remember correctly i set the output pulse to around 6.5 -7 volt range
but it dosent like the 10 volt pulse from the M2C Confused very strange
guess I shall try dropping the output voltage of the M2C a bit and see if that sorts it.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
My VCPS-8 sequencer still wont step directly from the M2C gate or trigger output but for a short while at least it stepped from the clock output Confused WTF
seems that problem is probably with the sequencer itself though.
it steps fine from a fonik master clock which if i remember correctly i set the output pulse to around 6.5 -7 volt range
but it dosent like the 10 volt pulse from the M2C Confused very strange

strange, indeed. IIRC the threshold of the VCPS-8 should be around 2V. did you measure the M2C's outputs?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
strange, indeed. IIRC the threshold of the VCPS-8 should be around 2V. did you measure the M2C's outputs?


yes i finally dragged my scope upstairs
nice +10 volt squares waves from all M2C outputs
I suspect it will end up being something i have wrong in the clock conditioning of the sequencer.
While i was at it i also checked
the output of one of the master clocks that does drive the sequencer
shows a nice 6.8 volt square wave
also just tried lowering the output on the M2C quickly using a 5.1v zener to ground not the best really and still no go
so a 6.8v square wave works , a 10v square wave does not, and a 5.1 volt
squarish wave does not. this is very very weird.
I just had a thought that maybe because i am powering the M2C from a different supply that maybe an issue
nope bugger that aint it either no PD between grounds
guess I will have to pull out the seq and go over its board
cheers matthias

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
Quote:
strange, indeed. IIRC the threshold of the VCPS-8 should be around 2V. did you measure the M2C's outputs?


yes i finally dragged my scope upstairs
nice +10 volt squares waves from all M2C outputs
I suspect it will end up being something i have wrong in the clock conditioning of the sequencer.
While i was at it i also checked
the output of one of the master clocks that does drive the sequencer
shows a nice 6.8 volt square wave
also just tried lowering the output on the M2C quickly using a 5.1v zener to ground not the best really and still no go
so a 6.8v square wave works , a 10v square wave does not, and a 5.1 volt
squarish wave does not. this is very very weird.

yes. the VCPS-8 should clock even from an triangle. do you have my seqswutch? it has almost the same clock input configuration (discrete schmitt trigger).

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks matthias for taking time
will continue with this problem in the VCPS seq topic

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have another question concerning which voltage to use. I'm new to diy stuff, so the answer might seem obvious, but it is unclear to me.

I have a CMOS based lunetta synth that uses +5/0/-5 for the power source. The CMOS chips run on +5/-5, so the logic signal is a total of 10V.

If I want to clock it using the MIDI2CLOCK device, would I:

a) use the 10V output since that is the total logic level signal of my device?

b) use the 5V output because that is the max positive voltage?

c) use the 10V but create something that converts it from +10 to +5/-5?
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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cynosure wrote:
I have another question concerning which voltage to use. I'm new to diy stuff, so the answer might seem obvious, but it is unclear to me.

I have a CMOS based lunetta synth that uses +5/0/-5 for the power source. The CMOS chips run on +5/-5, so the logic signal is a total of 10V.

so the threshold for the logic is about -2V? (datasheet for i.e. 4017 says 3V threshold for the clock input when powered from 0V-10V)
and the 0V (COM) ar eused for bipolar powered opamps only? (why not use LM324 single rail opamps then? - alas, i don't know much about lunetta)

if so, then i would say option d) use the 5V but create something that converts it from +5 to -5/0V?
maybe it would be the easiest and most versatile to built the MIDI2Clock with 5V and built a clock voltage converter on the lunetta's side - then you could use the MIDI2Clock for other gear, too.

- someone correct me if i am wrong.

Quote:
a) use the 10V output since that is the total logic level signal of my device?
b) use the 5V output because that is the max positive voltage?
c) use the 10V but create something that converts it from +10 to +5/-5?

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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As a best guess I think option B would be the safest bet
+5 volt clock , gate and trigger signals
you dont want to exceed the positive power rail voltage
cmos will only handle 0.5v above the rail voltage before damage occurs
however without looking at the ccts you are trying to clock
its difficult to actually know the levels that will be acceptable as a trigger
at least with option B you shouldn't damage anything
option A would be bad I think.

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fonik



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

diablojoy wrote:
however without looking at the ccts you are trying to clock
its difficult to actually know the levels that will be acceptable as a trigger

to have a working clock the signal has to go low enough. since the CMOS in the lunetta in question are powered from -5V to +5V, -5V is the Vss and +5V the Vdd. correct me if i am wrong, but i would think that the clock signal would have to cross the -2V threshold level.

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