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Fear and loathing in Pennsylvania?!
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Fear and loathing in Pennsylvania?!
Subject description: No protests.. fracking is cool?
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http://www.change.org/petitions/do-not-let-corporate-gas-drillers-trump-local-rights-of-pennsylvanians-say-no-to-sb-1100

http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/

http://marcellusprotest.org/

Will we see the Pennsylvanian enclave of electro-music.com on the barricades?

Will this be a " you cant be neutral on a moving train" ??

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wish there were a single page of straightforward text providing info and details on this.

From what I was able to glean, though, I have to say I'm totally against this. There's a way to use natural resources with wisdom, and this ain't it.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Meanwhile, in the UK...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/02/fracking-protesters-storm-shale-gas-site?newsfeed=true

General info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The Gasland documentary is worth seeing. It must be noted that it is an effective subjective look at the fracking industry in the US, but basically the story told is true. Actually, from what I´ve found the real truth is worse than what is told in Gasland. The immediate effect of fracking in the US farmland renders vast areas with a contaminated water supply.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

glow worm wrote:
Meanwhile, in the UK...


Awesome! At £1.39 a gallon of petrol, bring it on I say!

There was a tremor in Lancs. so what? Was anyone hurt? Nope. Damn regressive environmentalists. Ignore them I say!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
The Gasland documentary is worth seeing. It must be noted that it is an effective subjective look at the fracking industry in the US, but basically the story told is true. Actually, from what I´ve found the real truth is worse than what is told in Gasland. The immediate effect of fracking in the US farmland renders vast areas with a contaminated water supply.


There's bound to be a few mishaps at first. I bet Brunel didn't finish the major railway network in Britain without icing a few workers or more. Industrialisation is the only way forward, unless we want to return to a world where every time one needs a shit, you'll be forced to dig a hole first.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Minor local earthquakes aren´t really much of a problem. It´s the other stuff that´s a showstopper for the next 20 centuries.

It can go course be argued that brits have been eating lead and breathing in coal dust for centuries already. They won´t notice much.. and certainly they won´t figure out what killed them after the fact.. and as they will stop breeding soon due to genetic defects and what have you.. well.. who needs that little wet thing ?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
elektro80 wrote:
The Gasland documentary is worth seeing. It must be noted that it is an effective subjective look at the fracking industry in the US, but basically the story told is true. Actually, from what I´ve found the real truth is worse than what is told in Gasland. The immediate effect of fracking in the US farmland renders vast areas with a contaminated water supply.


There's bound to be a few mishaps at first. I bet Brunel didn't finish the major railway network in Britain without icing a few workers or more. Industrialisation is the only way forward, unless we want to return to a world where every time one needs a shit, you'll be forced to dig a hole first.


Fracking is one huge fucked up disaster. We aren´t talking a few mishaps. This is a major FAIL.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread






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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Back to fracking..








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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, I'm not happy they want to do it here either ... apart from the disasters coming from it as seen in the US .. we need to stop burning stuff anyway .. at least burning stuff that we did not "un-burn" before Shocked
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I disagree. With the right investment, as well as the right amount of research a process for extraction similar to fracking is quite feasible. It just needs to be done properly, and without some crazed government and oil tycoon getting in on the act for cheap profit (although the Americans are very good at oil mining. Vicious yes, but good, of course! )

Some of the greatest inventions ever have caused untold mayhem in their early days, and the malthusians would love all of this, because it would mean a few less people on the planet! Laughing Rolling Eyes Laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tom, look into how fracking works. A possible solution could be to dig around the shale areas and then encapsulate everything in a carbon fiber box and them encapsulate that inside something else.. then start the fracking.. Shocked

So.. not really feasible.. Laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The first video is absolutely right. Fracking could be a great thing! It just needs much better regulation. Get rid of the cowboys etc.

And all these idiots on Wall Street having a go at the bankers, should really be having a go at governments, as it is governments who set the rules- the same rules and regs which could be set with fracking.

How many miners have lost their lives in the last 6 months mining for coal?

Well there's the Welsh miners and the Yorkshire miners for a start- then all the rest. And that miraculous rescue (a rare thing indeed) in Chile. Do I need to go on?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You are free to go on for quite a bit yet. Laughing Main point is that I think you are following the wrong path of reasoning here.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
Fracking is one huge fucked up disaster. We aren´t talking a few mishaps. This is a major FAIL.

Noooo! It's great. We should move forward with this. I've thought up new efficient methods to get even more value out of fracking, see attachment.

DJ
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elektro80 wrote:
You are free to go on for quite a bit yet. Laughing Main point is that I think you are following the wrong path of reasoning here.


You haven't really made your case, apart from a load of fairly sensationalist vids, why this is such a fuckup. Rolling Eyes

I'm listening. Very Happy Wink

DJ- I like the idea. Not too sure about the ensuing mega-volcano though Shocked Although I'm sure you'd get even richer on the out spuing of diamonds bigger than your wildest dreams! Laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It actually takes time to study this. Not that there is a lot of new stuff to discover as the the actual technology as well as the stuff regarding shale deposits is kiddie stuff.

As for shale gas.. you can read up on the subject..quite interesting.. but it boils down to the fact that you have to crack and apply pressure to a large area of shale rock in order to let the gas out. They drill a hole and apply a tremendous force of liquid .. this makes the shale rock crack.. voila.. the stuff is leaking out.. and hopefully a fair amount of the good shit comes back up a well hole. Actually there is a bit more to it as they fracking liquid is a nasty cocktail. The fracking liquid is pretty much poison already.
There are no real alternatives to the current method. You gotta crack and mess up the shale rock in order to release the stuff.. and you gotta fracking liquid and water. The idea that all the gas and the fracking liquid comes back up in an orderly fashion in the well holes as intended is an illusion. It must be noted that the stuff that does come up as intended leads to problems too, but that is another matter. Gas fracking is a crude technology and due to how gas deposits in shale rock works in reality there won´t likely be a less crude way to get at it. Coal mining is almost as crude as it gets.. but fracking is really way worse. You can at least bring out coal in manageable pieces. Gas in shale rock does not in any way behave comparable to coal.. or even oil.

Instead the shit leaks out ... cracks.. remember..? And the ground water gets it share of the nasty stuff. That is not good. And there is no such thing as ground water getting its man pants on and fixing the pollution on her own. Polluted ground water stays that way. Keep in mind that many places ground water is the main supply of clean drinkable water.

We have seen very destructive industrial practices before involving lead, asbestos, radioactive substances and such. Now there are laws controlling the use of such substances.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Not too sure about the ensuing mega-volcano


Aha.. right... from an industry standpoint I reckon the USA has had it already and as 2012 arrives we can expect the Yellowstone supervolcano to go up and who needs farmland covered with volcanic ash? Sell Sell!!

Soon the american continent will only be occupied by a few hundred survivalist tea party gunmen. Laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On the other hand, if we consider it unlikely that the world ends in 2012 it just might be a good idea to consider to treat the only planet we have a tad better.

Idea

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh you incurable environmentalist! Rolling Eyes Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Think about it Tom! Once.. way way back your brilliant nordic genes decided to tour Britain and after violating nuns and sacking cities your genes suddenly woke up and found themselves soaked in lead and coal dust.

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyway, if I had gas in the water supply, I'd be doing a deal over the road at the Texaco garage, flogging it off as LPG! Very Happy Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's precisely those "brilliant nordic genes" that I am at odds with right now. I want to roll in wet grass while swinging my sword...... Embarassed actually lets not go there! Shocked

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

v-un-v wrote:
Anyway, if I had gas in the water supply, I'd be doing a deal over the road at the Texaco garage, flogging it off as LPG! Very Happy Laughing


Sure.. and if your water supply is polluted then you would have to buy expensive norwegian water on bottles. Very Happy

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