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 Forum index » Discussion » Composition
random rhythm generator needed
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nick17



Joined: Feb 23, 2012
Posts: 6
Location: uk

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:31 am    Post subject: random rhythm generator needed
Subject description: I'm no musician
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Hi everyone,
I need a random rhythm generator (or something like it). I'm treating my own tinnitus. Now I've got a sample .mp3 of my tinnitus I need to play it endlessly through an mp3 player but with continually changing rhythm, a sort of meaningless chaos rhythm wityh no recognizable pattern, as if it was being played by the worst drummer in the world.

Is there some simple software where I can enter my .mp3 or .wav and then play it on some kind of chaos algorhythm if that's what you call it?

Any help appreciated. It's all about desynchronizing neuronal activity.
Nick
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

welcome Nick,

interesting idea ... not sure what to use for it, but was wondering if there maybe is a website where I could read up on the subject?

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Antimon



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like something you could code up in ChucK, if you're a programmer. Sorry if that doesn't help.
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nick17



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanx for the warm welcome Blue Hell and appreciation to Antimon

Blue Hell, they may have worked out what tinnitus is and how to fix it. The basic idea is that when your ear is damaged (by noise,medication,etc), auditory cortex neurons in the brain become starved of certain frequencies. In Darwinian survival style, they become hyperactive and start receiving input sound from bordering undamaged zones, which we hear as tinnitus. The objective therefore is to re-supply the missing input noise to a now over-active auditory cortex to suppress the excessive neuronal firing which causes tinnitus

This has spawned Customised Sound Therapy whereyou listen to a replica sample of your tinnitus a few hours a day on an MP3 player. The research+trials indicate results in weeks.

http://journals.lww.com/thehearingjournal/Fulltext/2010/11000/Customized_Sound_Therapy__CST___A_therapy_for.8.aspx

A company called Beyond Tinnitus provides an online service, generating a tinnitus replica sound, enhanced by harmonics, so that the sound is also generated in different octaves...take a look
http://www.beyondtinnitus.com/tinnitus-cause

My idea was to incorporate a further feature from a related technology. It's called Acoustic CR Neuromodulation. Its the same deal but maybe smarter. CR stands for Coordinated Reset and was developed to DE-SYNCHRONIZE & disrupt the rhythm of synchronous neurons acting in hyperactive groups to cause bad stuff like Parkinson's. The company ANM uses a patented algorhythm to achieve this. The service is expensive so I thought I'd strike out with my own idea...neuron-disruptive Chaos Rhythm.

http://www.anm-medical.com/forums.html?option=com_content&view=article&id=72&Itemid=96&lang=en

That's it in a nutshell.

I don't quite get how I'm going to do the harmonics bit or phrases like "(the replica tinnitus signal should be) a center frequency with a narrowband noise on the order of 0.1% around it." But this forum is the best place to start. Also bearing in mind the relevance to musicians, this would be a good place to co-develop and share ideas in a common interest.

Thanks for any help
Nick
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting!

The reading is a bit vague indeed, but would be worth a try ... could you post your mp3 here, I'd like to try some stuff on it ... and maybe others as well ... will of course explain what I did then.

Some ideas ...

Adding harmonics could be done by some non linear distortion ... adding noise in a frequency band around a central tone would be a filter over some noise.

Can imagine that a wave editor could do it, a free one would be audacity ... or maybe could recreate the sounds using a modular synthesizer ... that could be the the Clavia G2 demo software, or like Antimon mentioned the ChucK software - both are free to use.

to get your random rhythms would be a bit involved in a wave editor, but ChucK could easily do that on a given recording, or whn the technical details of the sounds are known it would be easy to recreate it and to modulate it then in the G2 demo, or ChucK.

anyway, just some ideas.

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nick17



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:49 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Blue Hell. I only researched this material recently so I haven't made a good enough mp3 yet, hope to get it right in the next few days, then I'll post it.

Your ideas are inspiring. Once tweaked, this could be a valuable free online information resource to help others which would be cool.

I'll come back when I've got my stuff together. Take care man.
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nick17



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Blue Hell + all,

I got a reply (below) from beyondtinnitus.com showing us what the waveform looks like.


"I have attached a sample sound therapy for a 12kHz tinnitus frequency. As you may see, the band of noise centered around 12 kHz
also covers from 10 kHz to 14 kHz. Therefore, it will cover the lesion edge frequencies. The sub octaves are covered also because listening
to a sound exactly similar to tinnitus is shown to be obnoxious."

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9127/spectrum12k.jpg
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah cool!

made a lil G2 patch for that ... couple of filtered noise sources varying the cut off frequencies and the stereo placement a bit ... sounds a bit like being near a stream, the wind is a bit odd ... the 12 kHz stuff is prolly a bit too loud as thats where my hearing starts to go down ...

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

This is what it looks like .. attaching the patch file and a small mp3 too.


tin-ears-001.mp3
 Description:
see forum post

Download
 Filename:  tin-ears-001.mp3
 Filesize:  369.39 KB
 Downloaded:  304 Time(s)


tin-ears-001.pch2
 Description:
See forum post

Download
 Filename:  tin-ears-001.pch2
 Filesize:  1.85 KB
 Downloaded:  392 Time(s)


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

or bit more random percussive like ...

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


tin-ears-003.pch2
 Description:
See forum post

Download
 Filename:  tin-ears-003.pch2
 Filesize:  2.1 KB
 Downloaded:  406 Time(s)


tin-ears-003.mp3
 Description:
See forum post

Download
 Filename:  tin-ears-003.mp3
 Filesize:  784.08 KB
 Downloaded:  292 Time(s)


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nick17



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, this is clever stuff, way beyond my abilities. You could do special effects
for major movies with your know-how, excellent!

Does your software allow you to take a screenshot of the waveform, like the one I posted above? It would be useful to see what these crazy waves look like.


As soon as I can accurately match my tinnitus frequency, I want to create something like that pic.

My tinnitus frequency -around 8KHZ- surrounded by a narrow (say 6-10KHZ) noise band + sub-octave harmonics just like in the pic
all amplitude-modulated at 40HZ (instead of a chaos rhythm)
All the best
Nick
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The software Jan is using is a free download. It should run on most any PC.

When you install it, you can load the pch2 files posted here and adjust yourself. The sound is produced in real time.

Here is another patch (including your 40Hz AM) using the noise oscillator, you can tweak the width of each of the bands individually.

It sounds a bit like a frog chorus.


tin.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  13.96 KB
 Viewed:  6338 Time(s)

tin.jpg



tinnitus.pch2
 Description:
for tinnitus treatment.

Download
 Filename:  tinnitus.pch2
 Filesize:  1.52 KB
 Downloaded:  398 Time(s)

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nick17 wrote:
Does your software allow you to take a screenshot of the waveform, like the one I posted above? It would be useful to see what these crazy waves look like.


Useful indeed Shocked

as in .. should have checked that before posting Laughing its all a bit too noisy now ...


Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Thanks for posting a better idea Ian Smile

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ian-s



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:

Thanks for posting a better idea Ian Smile


Just different I think. The noise oscillator has an unusual character so probably filtered noise will give better results.

My dad had tinnitus when I was a kid. Drove him crazy but after a while it just got better by itself (which is the usual prognosis).

Anything to provide relief in the mean time would be good.

I personally can't hear 12kHz. Crying or Very sad
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nick17



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Ian (and Blue Hell of course)
It's really shaping up. I'll try for the software download and see if I can tweak. It's great of you to help, much appreciated. I'll probably come back to you with 'how to' questions. Superb work.
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