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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
CMOS Wave Shaper
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RingMad



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I really like this circuit, especially just the "straight" triangle output. On my wonky-and-surely-needing-calibration scope, they don't look quite like your pictures [see attached], but they sound lovely to me.

I also note that using a different pin on the 4040 can give interesting results as well.

I used this on the output of my sortof failed Bobbler circuit, which I talk about here: http://www.electro-music.com/forum/topic-53240.html .


TriangleBobblerWave.JPG
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Triangle wave as generated by The Bobbler going through Cynosure's waveshaper circuit.
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm glad to see people putting my schematics to use.

Thanks for sharing RingMad Smile
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tony void



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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On my "to build" list. With a 12 position Cool switch to select different outs of the 4040.
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attdestroyers



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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I breadboarded this last night, and i think it's the single best lunetta piece i've found. Totally amazing.

And i might have to steal that 12 position switch idea. Exclamation
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

how about a mux instead of a switch Cool
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

attdestroyers wrote:
I breadboarded this last night, and i think it's the single best lunetta piece i've found. Totally amazing.

Wow thanks! Smile
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
how about a mux instead of a switch Cool

Can you recommend a 12 input Mux chip?


Seeing everyones good reaction to this; I'm looking forwards to building it eventually, or some variation thereof Smile

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JingleJoe wrote:
Can you recommend a 12 input Mux chip?

that's gonna be either 16 -> 4067 (4 bit) or 8 -> 4051 (3 bit).
there's probably a way to use 2 4051's too but not sure if that's worth it.

Idea If you use a mux instead of a switch you could control the datalines of that with some LFO's or
other logic but I'm wondering what kind of pattern you get if you control it with a binary counter
(4029 or could be another 4040) clocked by the ouput (pin 8 or 9) of the 4006. this would make
it change after every cycle.

o and I couldn't resist redrawing the schematic a bit so you can see a bit more clearly what the 4006 does Cool


CMOS WaveShaper block.gif
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Cynosure's CMOS Wave Shaper - block schematic by PHOBoS
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for that schematic Phobos. Much easier to read what it does.

I didn't try when I had it bread boarded, but I wonder what it would do with the 1 stage outputs added to the mix. Maybe add 2 more steps that aren't as wide?
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the diagram and for the
Quote:

4067

Phobos Wink

I love block diagrams, they are so easy to understand Very Happy

An addiotional thought: would it be possible to get a scope screenshot of the input(clock) wave against the output?

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well I couldn't hold back any longer and just breadboarded it.
first thing I changed was removing the resistor attached to the CLK input since this only adds
the source frequency which is rather high (unless you're using it as an LFO).
instead add a resistor to the input of the 4006 (pin 1)

Cynosure wrote:
I didn't try when I had it bread boarded, but I wonder what it would do with the 1 stage outputs added to the mix. Maybe add 2 more steps that aren't as wide?

yep that's what it does,. so I added resistors to both pin 12 and pin 9 for some extra steps.

another thing I'm trying right now is an oscillator attached to the reset pin of the 4040
(high speed but lower than source). This gives some very nice filtering sounds.
I also noticed that some of the ouputs of the 4040 don't create any really interesting
sounds/waveforms so I don't think a 12 step switch/mux is necessary. 8 is probably
more then enough. But I have to do some tests first.

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Unfortunately, from my usual electronics supplier, the 4067 IC is more expensive than the 12 way rotary switch and a dial Laughing So I'll be sticking to them for now. On second thoughts, perhaps stackable banana plugs?
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RingMad



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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
well I couldn't hold back any longer and just breadboarded it.


Right on! I've been digging this great circuit for a couple weeks!

PHOBoS wrote:
I also noticed that some of the outputs of the 4040 don't create any really interesting sounds/waveforms so I don't think a 12 step switch/mux is necessary. 8 is probably
more then enough.


Hmmm, it could also be that depending on the signal going into it, some of the lower divisions are too high frequency to hear? That said, I probably will not be using all 12 outs either when it goes into a more permanent home.

I forgot about the reset pin of the 4040... I'll try that now. [... some minutes later ...] hmmm, in my case, I have this hooked up to the crazy "4051 ANY Gate" (which required me to buffer its output before going into this waveshaper)... I wouldn't qualify the sounds as filtering maybe... I get more rhythmic patterns. One day hopefully soon I'll hook this up to something more "normal".

JingleJoe wrote:
the 4067 IC is more expensive


Yeah, it's a big'un... 24 pins, wide body. I managed to get a good deal on a few on ebay, rather than my usual electronics stores.

James
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RingMad wrote:
PHOBoS wrote:
I also noticed that some of the outputs of the 4040 don't create any really interesting sounds/waveforms,..

Hmmm, it could also be that depending on the signal going into it, some of the lower divisions are too high frequency to hear?

well, I'm currently doing some tests with my scope, and taking notes on how the waveform changes
using different ouputs of the 4040 and 4006. At the moment I'm only using the 4-stage shiftregisters
of the 4006 (so I connected pin 11 to 5 instead of 12 to 5 skipping the 1-stage) and I have resistors
placed at the ouputs of each shiftregister and also a resistor on the input (which gets the divided
clock from the 4040). This results in a nice symmetrical 5 step triangle when using Q6 (pin 2)
of the 4040. Using Q5 changes it to a 3 step triangle, while Q4 to Q1 give a square wave with a
different frequency/amplitude. (So you're just getting a division of the Clk no interesting waveform)
Using outputs Q7 to Q12 gives 5 steps but with a longer pause between the triangles (the steps
themselves stay the same length). this creates a pulsed sound.

RingMad wrote:
I forgot about the reset pin of the 4040... I'll try that now. [... some minutes later ...] hmmm, in my case, I have this hooked up to the crazy "4051 ANY Gate" (which required me to buffer its output before going into this waveshaper)... I wouldn't qualify the sounds as filtering maybe... I get more rhythmic patterns. One day hopefully soon I'll hook this up to something more "normal".


I use the following setup to create the "filtered" sound; for the main Clk oscillator I use a 1nf cap and 500K pot.
for the reset I have an oscillator with a 100nF cap and 500K pot. Now if you turn the clk pot it produces
a very nice sound, especially if you set the reset oscillator at a fairly high speed. It looks great on the
scope btw,. stepped triangles popping up like mushrooms Very Happy


I think using switches or better yet, some logic to switch the resistors connected to the 4006
on and off will be more interesting than using different outputs of the 4040. Adding some
resistors to the outputs of the 4040, connected to the same point as all the others, also sounds very nice.

edit:

here's a schematic + waveform and a nice scopeshot, this should clear things up a bit more. Cool


CMOS WaveShaper wave1 scope.jpg
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

and here's another one with the 1-stage shiftregisters added, not completely to scale since the total amplitude remains the same.


CMOS WaveShaper wave2.gif
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yay scope screen shots! Very Happy Thats very interesting to see that the clock is much faster than the output, hmm ... I invented a frequency multiplier which multiplies by whole numbers (2, 4, 8, etc) so you could theoretically put your audio into that and get a wave out of this wave shaper the same frequency as your input Very Happy
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can you share the multiplier schematic?

I was thinking of using a highpass filter on alternating outputs from a schmidt trigger, but that would require at least 2 ic's just to multiple up to 8. I also saw schematic that does something similar with a 4069.

How does yours work?
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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JingleJoe wrote:
Yay scope screen shots! Very Happy Thats very interesting to see that the clock is much faster than the output, hmm ... I invented a frequency multiplier which multiplies by whole numbers (2, 4, 8, etc) so you could theoretically put your audio into that and get a wave out of this wave shaper the same frequency as your input Very Happy


Everything is an invention until you learn some one did it over forty years ago.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Psyingo wrote:
JingleJoe wrote:
Yay scope screen shots! Very Happy Thats very interesting to see that the clock is much faster than the output, hmm ... I invented a frequency multiplier which multiplies by whole numbers (2, 4, 8, etc) so you could theoretically put your audio into that and get a wave out of this wave shaper the same frequency as your input Very Happy


Everything is an invention until you learn some one did it over forty years ago.

Hahahah, yes I'm certain it has been done but I came up with this idea without prior knowledge of anyone else having done it, I'll start a new thread for it in the main DIY forum and link it via this post.

UPDATE:
AVAST ME MATIES OF THE SEA MOSS!

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

...which is why it might be an idea checking that the apple hasn't first fallen on the head of someone more famous than yourself, prior to yelling "Eureka!"
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

speaking of things that have been done before, I switched from using a 4006, to a 4015 which contains
two 4-stage shiftregisters with outputs for each stage. You can use one of these 4-stage shiftregister to
create a similar symmetrical triangle as with the four 4-stage shiftregisters from the 4006, with the
difference that each step now only lasts 1 CLK period instead of 4. this also means you don't need to
divide by 64 anymore and you can use a lower CLK speed in general.

But like I said it contains TWO 4 stage shiftregisters. You can chain them in series for an 8 step triangle,
using the /16 (pin 5) output of the 4040. But you can do all kinds of other things too, instead of linking
them in series use an oscillator to feed data into the 2nd 4-stage shifregister or connect it to a different
output of the 4040 or whatever you come up with. It also has individual CLK and Reset pins for each
shiftregister so in total you could just hook up 6 oscillators directly (40106 Smile), which can produce some
nice drones. And after watching the waveforms,. I think that with low speeds this thing could make
a very interesting 'stepping' LFO. Cool

Offcourse in Lunetta land this has been done before allthough probably mostly using an R/2R ladder.

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Last edited by PHOBoS on Fri May 11, 2012 5:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
...which is why it might be an idea checking that the apple hasn't first fallen on the head of someone more famous than yourself, prior to yelling "Eureka!"

Why can't I yell eureka if I come up with something myself? I will yell eureka as I please, then if someone else has done it we can yell eureka together Smile

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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Phobos - great work! Schematic please? Smile
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey dudes,
This is stuff very close to my heart. (re-creating analogue style waveforms using real time digital controlers, on the fly!)

If you have time, please check this thread,
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-33381.html&postorder=asc&highlight=reanimator
and let me know what you think?
I've got a whole new set of ideas which would make it a lot better. Would be great to bounce them around with other minds.

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Cynosure wrote:
Phobos - great work! Schematic please? Smile

ok here's the simple 8-step triangle setup.
(I'm a bit disabled at the moment,. will be hooking up some oscillators and maybe make a video when I can)

Uncle Krunkus: I quickly scanned the thread, it looks interesting. I'll have to look into that some other time.


CMOS 4015 8-step triangle.gif
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