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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
CMOS Wave Shaper
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That test board looks like a face! Shocked Love it! There's something inherently artistic about most electronics and wiring, but some stand out as particularly stunning. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice little test board.

I tried it as an lfo too and controlled a 4046 VCO. It was great because the steps made it like an up/down arpeggio.
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
That test board looks like a face! Shocked Love it!

uhuh cheesy that's why I took the picture in that direction (with the 'smiling' dipswitch upside down).
I only noticed it once I was placing the components on the board, it wasn't really clear in the design
because of the colors. Suddenly it was looking at me and the "hair" gave it an extra nice touch geek

Cynosure wrote:

I tried it as an lfo too and controlled a 4046 VCO. It was great because the steps made it like an up/down arpeggio.

yep Smile (checking the recording now,. will post later)

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 7:37 am    Post subject: 4015 Stepwave generator sounds
Subject description: controlling 2 VCO's
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Here are some sounds, it's a bit repetitive so you may want to skip a bit. The change in pitch around the
7:40 mark is a result off switching out resistors. This does not only change the step voltage but because of
the pulldown resistor/pot the amplitude drops aswell. I think this could be solved by powering the opamp from
a higher voltage then the 4015 so it does't clip and there's no more need for an extra resistor.

There's more happening then just the 4015 and 2 VCO's, there's also some waveshaping, amplitude modulation,
filtering and effects involved, so it's beyond lunetta territory, or at least it's not done with CMOS. But
the pitch of the two VCO's I used is only controlled by the 4015 Stepwave generator. Cool


PHOBoS - 4015 Stepwave generator LFO test - cut1.mp3
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That has been a joy to listen to Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I skipped none of that, PHOBoS... it was really nice to listen to. It could be even longer! That little test board is cute too.

Alas, I haven't had a lot of time these days to explore this stuff (and in conjunction with the frequency multiplier). Hopefully soon.

James.
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Amazing phobos! I loved that. Great stuff!
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: 4015 Stepwave generator sounds
Subject description: controlling 2 VCO's
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really cool stuff PHOBoS, I really love these "overclocked" waveforms!


PHOBoS wrote:
I think this could be solved by powering the opamp from a higher voltage then the 4015 so it does't clip and there's no more need for an extra resistor.


This is quite a comman tactic when using CMOS as voltage sources, it can make life alot easier (more headroom in the amp stage) & make getting precise voltage outputs simple without lots of sums / wierd resistor values.

Don Buchla used to use local 10V supplies (voltage divider + op-amp buffer) for the 4015 sections of his random voltage generators for example.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So, relavant to what I asked on this other thread,
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-53649.html
You agree that a lower voltage for the CMOS is a good idea? eg: 5V?
And then convert back to higher voltages for modulars at the end with op-amps?

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:16 am    Post subject: Jabberwock
Subject description: 't was brillig,..
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thanks guys! Very Happy

DGTom wrote:
Don Buchla used to use local 10V supplies (voltage divider + op-amp buffer) for the
4015 sections of his random voltage generators for example.

speaking of random,. I was thinking of hooking up a shiftregister with some EXOR's as one of those
semi-random generators, with resistors attached to various points. Not sure how it would sound at audio
rates, I expect noise, but it would probably make an interesting LFO (or is that what Buchla did ?!)

Anyway here's an offspring.
I had noticed when playing around with it I could get voice like sounds but I got the best effects when
turning a pot so I wanted some modulation. Digging through the forum I found a way to turn a 40106 into
a VCO and with a little bit of tinkering this worked as I wanted. At first I thought I patched up some
feedback loop causing chaotic behaviour, but after drawing the schematic this doesn't seem to be the case,
It still sounds pretty chaotic though, so I am wondering if there might be some feedback through the
powerlines but I'll find that out once I soldered it up. (hope it will still work)

Here's the schematic and 10 minutes of non-stop jabbering without me touching any pots.
(in Gyre mode and without Snicker-Snack!)


PHOBoS - Jabberwock.gif
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PHOBoS - Jabberwock.gif



PHOBoS - Jabberwock Demo (May 18, 2012).mp3
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10 minutes of non-stop jabbering without any knob twisting.

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 Filename:  PHOBoS - Jabberwock Demo (May 18, 2012).mp3
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Last edited by PHOBoS on Sat May 19, 2012 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Beautiful! sunny

I especially love the "eyes of flame" Shocked Laughing

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow! Awesome and creepy. A talking lunetta Surprised
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This is a very interesting lunetta build. Thank you for sharing...
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Can you maybe post a demo of this circuit going thorough different waveforms? Like saw, ramp, sine etc... The E.P.'s are nice but I'm having trouble hearing what this does. Confused
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
Can you maybe post a demo of this circuit going thorough different waveforms? Like saw, ramp, sine etc... The E.P.'s are nice but I'm having trouble hearing what this does. Confused

depends which one you mean:
- the original 4006 based circuit by Cyno, with the switches for stepped
triangle/sine/spiked outputs.
- the 4015 triangle and saw generator (with nice simulations by nardu)
- the Jabberwock

the last one doesn't really do triangle, saw or sine, it just a mess what
comes out of it. But it is some sort of stepped waveform.

And good news, I just soldered it up and it's jabbering like a wocky.
it does seem to sound a bit more digital with more bleeps and blips
(I can get some nice random glitching out of it), but it works Razz

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thats frigging incredible Phobos! Very Happy I love it, brilliant work!

I'll have to read this thread more thoroughly, I think I know whats going on at a logic level but I want to understand more fully. Anyone care to explain? Smile

P.S. find attached my schematic of a 40106 VCO, slightly different and needs a comparatored output for logic really.


VCO.bmp
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHantastic, PHOBoS! The beamish Jabberwock machine, I mean. Well, all of what you posted. Voice-like sounds are always fascinating. I definitely want to breadboard the Jabberwock, if only to see the "eyes of flame"!

What about running the output of that into one of the other waveshapers? But I guess feeding a stepped waveform into that wouldn't yield a triangle, but rather more uffish waves.

Just to clarify, both the 4006-based and the 4015-based waveshaper circuits produce a lower frequency triangle (/sine/saw/ramp) wave than the input square wave, right? So these are actually waveshaper-dividers. I was not entirely successful in using these with the [JovianPyx] 4046 frequency multiplier circuit [ http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-53504.html ] yet, but I have not had a lot of time to work on this lately.

James.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RingMad wrote:
PHantastic, PHOBoS! The beamish Jabberwock machine, I mean. Well, all of what you posted. Voice-like sounds are always fascinating. I definitely want to breadboard the Jabberwock, if only to see the "eyes of flame"!

dwarf I'd love to hear your experience with it, it works for me but it's always nice to have someone else test it.
I was thinking of maybe adding a LED to the vorpal blade aswell. One two! One two!

Quote:
What about running the output of that into one of the other waveshapers? But I guess feeding a stepped waveform into that wouldn't yield a triangle, but rather more uffish waves.

That wouldn't be very usefull since the output is an analog waveform or at least has more than 1 voltage.
You could use a comparator or remove 2 of the resistors of the 2nd shiftregister, but I think that
would just result in a galumphing pulsewave. If you feed that into the waveshaper you would get
a varying stepped triangle/saw waveform. Kinda like the LFO test I did but with a more random pattern,
but for that I was thinking a 4006/XOR setup with a couple of resistors.

You can also use bigger shiftregisters, but not sure how that would change the sound,. it might make it more slithy.

Quote:
Just to clarify, both the 4006-based and the 4015-based waveshaper circuits produce a lower frequency triangle (/sine/saw/ramp) wave than the input square wave, right? So these are actually waveshaper-dividers.

yes, that's correct. And its one óf the reasons why I like to use the 4015 over the 4006,. because
it has 1-stage shiftregisters you can use a lower input frequency than you need with the 4006, to get
the same output frequency (it still will be a division off course).

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RingMad wrote:
I was not entirely successful in using these with the [JovianPyx] 4046 frequency multiplier circuit [ http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-53504.html ] yet, but I have not had a lot of time to work on this lately.


This is the kind of stuff I'm doing with the Re-Animator. A 4046 to get an 8oct up clock. This then gives 256 "samples" in which to generate a CV controlled wave "on the fly". The most simple is a triangle wave, but I've worked out how to morph into curved waves, using integrated counter/dividers. Add a few more logic tricks (boolean threshold decisions basically) seeing as how we're in CMOS world, then take the 8bits back through a hand rolled R/2R network, an LPF of some kind, bumped back up with an op-amp to +/-10V, and,......voila! New CV controlled wavesource.

It will have the possibilities of a wavetable, but because every wave cycle is generated on the fly from CV control, it will be constantly modulatable. (is that a word?)

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
RingMad wrote:
I was not entirely successful in using these with the [JovianPyx] 4046 frequency multiplier circuit [ http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-53504.html ] yet, but I have not had a lot of time to work on this lately.


This is the kind of stuff I'm doing with the Re-Animator. .... modulatable. (is that a word?)

Be there a thread me hearty? ARR, a word it be! pirat
Also thankye for remindin' me o' the 4046 I bought some t'experiment but had forgotten all about it, ARR!

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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think there's an early thread which is actually called "R/2R me heartys!"

Man! Discovering hand rolled R/2R ladders was a major enlightenment for me. Just so cool! Cool

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Random Stepwave Generator LFO test Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

correct me if I'm wrong but if I understand correctly R2/R ladders give the same output signal when fed
a binary signal, as the way it's done in this thread when fed a 'wave', that is the resistors are turned on
one after the other. I haven't really experimented with R/2R's yet Rolling Eyes

anyway, I finished the Jabberwock Very Happy except for the knobs which I ordered (should arrive tomorrow or the day
after) so I'll post some pics when I get those. I think it turned out pretty nice. So after I finished
that I decided to do a quick experiment with the 4006/4070 semi-random generator idea. Below is a schematic
of the test circuit I used and a demo. As with the previous LFO test I used the ouput to control a VCO. It sounds
as I expected and i think it's very usefull Smile (I also did a quick test how it sounds at audiorates but as I allready
thought it's noise, however you can control the sound with the CLK speed)

I first breadboarded the random generator and then added the spare XOR fed with an extra oscillator and
a randomly chosen output of the 4006. So far I've only seen 4 outputs of this random generator setup used
in circuits so i guess those are the random bits. By adding more resistors I actually combined it with the original
waveshaper circuit, and as an LFO this creates some nice arpeggios.

When I drew the schematic the first thing I noticed is that pin 8 is unused so i could attach the spare XOR
to that instead of an extra oscillator. This way you could turn it into a nice 2 chip module with just a an input
and output.

however adding some extra oscillators = more fun, but I did notice that because it's not in sync with the CLK
it doesn't actually sound that nice all the time, depending on the sounds you want. One idea is to add
a flipflop triggered by the CLK after the oscillator. Or throw in a 4040 aswell, and have it triggered
at a different speed but still in sync. Another idea is to add Psyingo's swing generator.

One thing I'm certainly gonna add is a rotary switch to choose between some different configurations.
As it's drawn now there are no resistors added to either pin 8 or 13 of the 4006. Instead of just adding them
I think it's nicer to choose between different setups. This should give some slightly different sounding
sequences. I might be able to wire it up so you can get a stepped triangle and maybe even a saw out of it
aswell since the basic circuit for that is allready present.

let's see what's more, ah yeah, I used a third oscillator attached with a 100 ohm resistor and pot in series to
the resistor network. This creates a nice vibrato effect. I have to do some more tests to see what pot value gives
the best range. (I used 100K). And as in Cynosure's original circuit I also added a cap to ground. Because it's used as
an LFO I added a 100uF, this creates a glide effect. It should work with a pot in series, and you can use a smaller
cap when there's a buffer opamp. But I've run out of LM358's (ordered with the knobs) so once I get those I'll
do some tests with that.

and a last thing just for fun,. add a 7-segment LED display to all the outputs you wire the resistors to. Very Happy


edit: just noticed that right now U2c is just an inverted version of U2b which means they cancel each other out.


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PHOBoS - Random StepWave generator LFO test - cut 1.mp3
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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That was lovely Smile I assume you added that echo and some kind of sine/tri LFO controlled VCF/VCA?
Nevertheless it was really nice to listen to, it really reminded me of my Lunetta death pipes from outer space Wink which use an R2R ladder.
While this thread had been really interesting I thought of some different ways to do very similar things which I will investigate in the future...

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks, and yes there are some VCA's and LFO's involved (I use my DIY synth for testing) and some effects aswell Smile

I just posted some pics of the Jabberwock here Cool
I added a LED for the Vorpal blade, and switched the terms 'Vorpal blade' and 'Snicker-Snack!' around.
Makes more sense this way Wink I also switched the resistors and pots of the oscillators around to make it
easier to wire up. I might post an updated schematic with those changes and the pin numbers for the 40106
as i used them on the PCB. (mainly usefull for myself to look up).

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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2012 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

PHOBoS wrote:
thanks, and yes there are some VCA's and LFO's involved (I use my DIY synth for testing) and some effects aswell Smile

I just posted some pics of the Jabberwock here Cool
I added a LED for the Vorpal blade, and switched the terms 'Vorpal blade' and 'Snicker-Snack!' around.
Makes more sense this way Wink

That is brilliant Very Happy It deserved its own thread, make one, now, and fill it with sound samples Very Happy
PHOBoS wrote:

I also switched the resistors and pots of the oscillators around to make it
easier to wire up.

Hoe does that even still work!? Laughing

I've just been doing some work in a similar vein, I am too sleep deprived to remember what I was acctually doing in my lab so I did some experiments instead. See the rival thread (may take a moment to be posted, lots of scope shots)

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