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Silly boy
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crazeydazey



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:15 am    Post subject: Silly boy Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all..

I think I've made a bit of a school boy error..

I've started lots of little projects and not really got anywhere near finishing any of them except for my yusynth ADSR.

The problem is as I have said below I have NEVER finished any of my projects, so my 1st completed thing will be an ADSR.

how the hell am I suppose to test that that works ?? I have no other modules, I have no test equipment (scope etc..) except a multimeter..

actually now I think about it I'm telling a small lie there, I have completed my MFOS WSG.. can I hook it up to that somehow??

am I right in thinking the minimum I would need to test it would be a VCA, then I can say put my WSG and my ADSR into the VCA and voila I should be able to test it???

if I'm right (sorry I'm still a noob with all this Embarassed ) then can anyone recommend a quick and simple VCA I can knock up that doesn't need sig gen and scope to set up (I was looking at the yusynth but I don't think I could set it up Sad )

cheers

daz

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prgdeltablues



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, you should be able to use your multimeter and the gate button on the ADSR to test whether it is functioning. Turn Attack to min, Sustain to max. Hold the button down - your multimeter should show some voltage - even if it isn't fast enough to give an accurate reading (though that should only take a couple of seconds of sustained voltage output). With Release set to min, the voltage should return to 0 pretty promptly once you release the button. with Release turned up, the multimeter should show a slowly decaying voltage.

If you want a simple VCA, try this one -I've build several and it works fine:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-41277.html

Well worth picking up a secondhand scope if you can, they're invaluable for troubleshooting.

hope this helps

Peter
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Get an oscilloscope
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_nkw=oscilloscope&_sop=15
There are many very cheap ones around. If you don't need to be super accurate and are just going to watch an envelope or check a wave for severe distortion or something, then any old scope will do Smile

I also suffer project ADD, most don't get finished, but you must attempt to use your strength of will to make yourself finish your projects!

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elmegil



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep Smile I did something similar; my first build was MIDI->CV. Which I had nothing to control.

Though I did breadboard a VCO before I built the ADSR I have... But there are a lot of very simple VCOs out there, and you don't even need one with voltage control on it to test your EG. And you're right you could use your WSG in that capacity too.

This was the first VCO I built:

http://www.uni-bonn.de/~uzs159/vco4069.html

and I would second the recommendation for Nicolas' VCA.

There are (relatively) inexpensive scopes out there that have the form factor of a chunky cellphone; they're more expensive than the eBay route, but they also take up much less space. Mine sits on a shelf next to my workspace when I'm not using it, and my wife hardly even knows it's there Very Happy
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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You could simply hook the output of the lfo up to an led to observe the timing if the signal. Honestly an oscilloscope was pretty low on my list of things to buy when i started making stuff. I made due by using leds. Eventually i got a scope or two and it has helped but its not like i didn't get stuff built without it.
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oscilloscopes might be a bit of a prop for a lot of people. It makes one feel important and scientific. They are a bit like stethoscopes. I'm sure doctors just wear them to look important.
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elmegil



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Honestly I don't think I could properly shape a sine wave without one. Then again, I'm old and probably getting deef. Adjusting / troubleshooting my ADSR as well. I suppose I could use an LED in a pinch, assuming the time frames were long enough, but things like trigger pulses--are they getting through or not? Stuff like that is much easier for me with a scope then trying to do it by ear or by flickering light.
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diablojoy



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I suppose i could just go back to slapping a couple of fish together over my boards and praying Razz Laughing though it never worked all that well previously.
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crazeydazey



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for all your answers guys.. the LFO one confused me a little, I haven't got an LFO??? Smile

diablojoy - your answer was brilliant.. I hate using LOL but it did actually make me laugh out loud Smile

I think I'm gonna chuck a few quid in a jar instead of getting beers every week, then I will soon have enough saved for a scope and the wife can't moan at me for spending money we aint really got at the minute Smile (and I should lose a bit of weight too.. win win)

elmegil - I too have a midi-cv as my first bit of kit.. I didn't build it myself though, and I've also nearly finished the rene VCO ... not very confident it's going to work though as I built it on protoboard and my prototyping skill aren't very good, so I would like to get a pcb layout for this.. I've tried designing my own, but my eagle skills are very good either. Smile

I think I will have a go at building the VCA you recommended, but knowing me it will be another half finished circuit I'll just have laying around.

again cheers all

daz

again cheers guys..

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
Oscilloscopes might be a bit of a prop for a lot of people. It makes one feel important and scientific. They are a bit like stethoscopes. I'm sure doctors just wear them to look important.

I see you trying to piss me off and it won't work. Oscilloscopes aren't some badge of honour, they are an important tool and in addition an LED cannot indicate distortion or voltage with any degree of accuraccy. Laughing
diablojoy wrote:
I suppose i could just go back to slapping a couple of fish together over my boards and praying Razz Laughing though it never worked all that well previously.

Haha! Exactly right Mr Joy Wink

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MirlitronOne



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
Oscilloscopes might be a bit of a prop for a lot of people. It makes one feel important and scientific. They are a bit like stethoscopes. I'm sure doctors just wear them to look important.


Certainly one of the dumbest comments here in ages.

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MirlitronOne



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyway Mr Dazey, don't punish yourself too much. You have to accept that when you build synth modules, some builds may have to wait for others before you can test them properly. Every time you add a new module, it doubles the possibilities for the ensemble.

At least you have started some projects. Focus on each at a time, complete them, don't be afraid of them not working (lots of good people here will help you) and before you know it, you'll have a great system (and no disposable income!). Remember: getting there is half the fun. Being there is all of it.

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually Joe, I was not trying to piss you off. You couldn't have been more further from my mind when I posted that. In future I shall post an appropriate smiley thus indicating it is indeed a joke. This is for the benefit of you too MirlitronOne. You may want to recalibrate your sense of humour. Silly boys! Laughing
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
Actually Joe, I was not trying to piss you off. You couldn't have been more further from my mind when I posted that.

I'll bet money that's a lie.
You have a history of attempting to piss me off with thinly disguised insults, you are a shit sitrrer, so it is infact yourself who needs re-calibration. I mean no offence by this it is merely what I have observed and I try to be objective and give people the benefit of the doubt but there is no doubt anymore about you.
Take your useless advice and be gone!

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Captain Biscuits



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Interesting argument about oscilloscopes.

Mine makes pretty dancing patterns which I can gaze at inanely like a cat watching a reflection for hours.

I'm told they can be used as a diagnostic tool too but really, that's just a bonus, enjoy the pretty patterns and life is good Smile

Ian
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JingleJoe wrote:
-minus- wrote:
Actually Joe, I was not trying to piss you off. You couldn't have been more further from my mind when I posted that.

I'll bet money that's a lie.
You have a history of attempting to piss me off with thinly disguised insults, you are a shit sitrrer, so it is infact yourself who needs re-calibration. I mean no offence by this it is merely what I have observed and I try to be objective and give people the benefit of the doubt but there is no doubt anymore about you.
Take your useless advice and be gone!


In the interest of others here who are trying to learn something about electronics, I shall ignore your comments from hereon in. There are plenty of people here whom I do respect, but a Liverpudlian Victorian role player with ADHD is not one of them. Now you take your useless advice and be gone!
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You have some weird opinions about me minus, you need to come back to reality. If you keep telling those lies soon your nose will reach to the moon!

P.S. I don't role play or have ADHD, if you want to learn something, then you should read my posts.

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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all.

Crazey-Dazey - my 0.02pence worth - if a scope turns up cheap, grab it.

You can make modules without a sillyscope for sure, but as you get deeper into SDIY, it starts to become a really useful tool. A lot of what goes on in modules is AC or DC levels and waveforms. A scope lets you see Level, Offset, Frequency and waveshape simultaneously (and quickly). That's the real bonus IMO. For troubleshooting, sometimes it just *looks* wrong, which can help you find problems.

As an example I had a Paia MIDI2CV8 which had no CV output. Putting the scope at the output of one of the digital chips should have shown typical fast spiky pulses. Instead there was a sort-of slewed wave.
I didn't need to calculate anything - there was obviously something going wrong somewhere around that point. Turned out to be a cracked resistor (!) across an opamp buffer.

And yeah - they are fun to look at. In the pre-internet years, a weed-loving friend had a large one he used to rig up along with lights, and get stoned and stare at for hours whilst listening to music.... I can see his point Wink

cheers,
Dave

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
In the interest of others here who are trying to learn something about electronics, I shall ignore your comments from hereon in. There are plenty of people here whom I do respect, but a Liverpudlian Victorian role player with ADHD is not one of them. Now you take your useless advice and be gone!


JingleJoe wrote:
You have some weird opinions about me minus, you need to come back to reality. If you keep telling those lies soon your nose will reach to the moon!


Confused

Thread after after thread I see you folks going after each other, it's OK you can't stand each other but could you guys please at least have the decency to fight it out without bothering others?

And yes I know there is a 3rd one involved, I trust that person to know who I mean Wink

Anyway, there are several approaches for doing fun stuff with electronics and music, no one particular method being any better intrinsically than any other - the idea is to have fun with!

When your only option for a reply is one where the poster is being hit, please consider ignoring it - and there really is no need to "warn" people for other people's technical competence, all readers will be perfectly aware of what they like or dislike in other people's builds, ideas, music. Really there there is room enough for several ideas, world views, what have you ...

So please calm it down a bit, okay?

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bubzy



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

well, you could use an led if you just hook it up to the output and 0v (probably with a resistor) the led should get brighter, stay bright and then get dimmer. can't see why this would be a problem.
or if you are feeling really fancy, you could make a lm3915 Voltage/VU meter and hook 10 leds up and watch them rise and fall with your envelope Smile

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:


Thread after after thread I see you folks going after each other, it's OK you can't stand each other but could you guys please at least have the decency to fight it out without bothering others?

minus started it, minus allways starts it. I'm just here to talk electronics.

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EdisonRex
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JingleJoe wrote:
Blue Hell wrote:


Thread after after thread I see you folks going after each other, it's OK you can't stand each other but could you guys please at least have the decency to fight it out without bothering others?

minus started it, minus allways starts it. I'm just here to talk electronics.


It's not about who started it, it's about stopping doing it. Don't rise to it, or take it outside.

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crazeydazey



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow I can't believe my post started of an argument .. sorry guys Sad

thanks for all your help here, some pretty cool advise on how I can test my ADSR.

I have started messing around with various simple VCAs I've seen kicking around (mainly ones with low component count and ones I have all the bits laying around for Smile), as I would really love to test it by ear, plus when I breadboard a VCA and it it seems to work ok, then that will be another project I'll start (designing the PCB from the scheme etc.. - that should be fun Smile)

I will definitely get a scope when I have a few spare pennies kicking around as I think the more seriously I get into SDIY the more I really gonna need one

again thanks all for your help..

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Dave Kendall



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just remembered - I tested my first ADSR using a VCF set to self-oscillation, 'coz it was all I had. Worked well. Very easy to tweak min/max rates and things, as the ear is so sensitive to shifts in frequency.

Good luck with testing! Wink

cheers,
Dave

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

Crazey-Dazey - my 0.02pence worth - if a scope turns up cheap, grab it.


+1 to this advice. A scope is actually a very very useful device, and sure, it can be fun to watch too, but it makes a lot of time-related events easier to watch.

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