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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » MusicFromOuterSpace.com designs by Ray Wilson
New Sample and Hold Mod
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adhdboy



Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 57
Location: denver

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all

I posted a cool mod for the Sound Lab. A Sample and Hold circuit which is a nice way to generate some voltage changes that can be used to control the synth to create repeating or random patterns of notes.

There is a link to it on the main page of:
Music From Outer Space

I noticed that the site was not responding this morning. It looks like LunarPages is not off to a good day which is a very rare event. I'm sure they will have it fixed in no time so please be patient. Embarassed

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Alex_D_Steak



Joined: Feb 17, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

today the whole internet seems to have issues.... I have malfunction
reports from here in Italy and also from friends in the Netherlands...

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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I split this into a new topic in the Sound Lab forum. One of the advantages of having a dedicated forum is the ability to have many separate topics. Smile
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adhdboy



Joined: Feb 16, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks mosc!
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dnny



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am    Post subject: simple sample & hold trg -connection Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all

i am building sound lab for my self and i´m a newbie to these DIY-synth-stuff

so here comes the guestion:
where sould i connect the sample and hold TRG point on my sound lab ?

for me this project has been a very nice experience and i feel that im stepping to a new world

Daniel

sorry about my english
spellcheck roks Smile
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adhdboy



Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 57
Location: denver

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Daniel

Connect the TRG out to the gate input on the Sound Lab. Sorry for the confusion on the naming but the duration of the TRG pulses is only a few milliseconds so I couldn't really call it a gate. The TRG pulses will trigger the Sound Labs AR envelope generator when connected to the External Gate input (point X3 connected to the anode of D7). Everytime the voltage from the sample and hold changes the AR will be triggered which will allow you to control the filter, vca, and or oscillator with the envelope.

Hope this helps

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dnny



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:56 pm    Post subject: confused about the ins and outs Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

first thanks for your great pages and this sound lab project.

nower days i have been confused about those ins and outs. so please be patient and explain me sould i connect my keyboard to point X3 (external gate) aswell with the sample and hold TRG output ? or where sould i plug the keyboard? one thing is clear to me - the main output Smile

sorry for being a dummy - everyday i learn something new - soon i will master my sound lab

daniel
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adhdboy



Joined: Feb 16, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

First off you are not a dummy at all. I envy the fact that you speak two languages and well at that. Anyway here's the thing. You only have one gate input to the Sound Lab so you have to connect the gate input to either the keyboard of the sample and hold. In the case that you connect it to the sample & hold the keyboard will still provide a pitch offset so that the sample and hold output will be higher or lower depending on which key you press. But the S&H will start the AR envelopes. If you connect it to the keyboard it will start the envelopes and the sample & hold will provide pitch variations only. Either way is cool. Experiment and see what you come up with. I have posted a mode that shows yuo how to add more CV inputs for the oscillators.

Cheers and good experimenting

Ray

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adhdboy



Joined: Feb 16, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I forgot to include the link for the mod.




Cheers

Ray
http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/SOUNDLABMINISYNTH/SoundLabMods.html#ADDMORECVINPUTS

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dnny



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: substitute for LM13700 Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tanks a lot Ray im starting to figure out the almost endless possibilites of sound lab

here comes another question:

i have looked for LM13700 in Helsinki and there just ain't any Sad

you said in the sound lab page that :
"Pretty much any quad JFET input op-amp with the same pinout will do to replace the LF444 and pretty much any dual JFET input op-amp with the same pinout will do to replace the LF442."

but there is nothing about replacement of LM13700 - so i figured out that if i could replace the JFETs whit any JFET so maybe i can replace
(LM13700) dual operational transconductance amplifiers whit any dual op- transconductance amp. is it so ?

i found on www.alldatasheet.com
these subtitutes

LM13600
NE5517
AU5517
CA3280
NTE870

http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/NSC/LM13600N.html
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/PHILIPS/NE5517.html
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/PHILIPS/AU5517D.html
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/INTERSIL/CA3280.html
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/NTE/NTE870.html

i just want to know what you think. is it ok if i replace the LM13700 whit one of those?

and then i hope i just find some of those or then i will need to do the IC- whit breadboard and components:)

greetings

Daniel
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adhdboy



Joined: Feb 16, 2005
Posts: 57
Location: denver

PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It looks like all of these EXCEPT the CA3280 are direct replacements for the LM13700. Since I am not really using any feature that is specific to the LM13700 I would bet any of these others would work fine.

LM13600
NE5517
AU5517
NTE870


Thanks for finding them too. Very Happy

Good building!

http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-df/view/NSC/LM13600N.html
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/PHILIPS/NE5517.html
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/PHILIPS/AU5517D.html
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/NTE/NTE870.html

Cheers

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paul



Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Posts: 31
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Crew,
just finished 2x S&H circuits and they are great!
I've used TL074 instead of TL084 and BF245 (oriented differently) instead of MPF102.

Many Thanks to adhdboy as usual
ciao

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adhdboy



Joined: Feb 16, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Paul

Glad you enjoyed that one. Its pretty absorbing once you get started.

Cheers

Ray

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killsurfcity



Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 21
Location: Philadelphia, PA USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:44 am    Post subject: For the patched out version... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

the page for the sample and hold lists places you can patch it to. would these points be inputs on the patch out version, or are they additional?
basically i just want to know if i should add a switch, or more patch points or neither.

thanks,
-et-
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adhdboy



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The points listed on the Sample and Hold page are circuit points from the SoundLab Schematics. You can add patch points connected to these if you like. I always recommend a 1K resistor between the circuit point and the banana jack patch point to protect against shorts. Alternatively, you can use a rotary switch with the poles connected to the suggested circuit points and the center pole connected to the input to the Sample and Hold.

I hope this helps.

adhdboy

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killsurfcity



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I hope this helps.
[/quote]

yes, it does.

thanks,
-et-
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killsurfcity



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

okay, so for the normalized version the sample and hold has a rotary switch to switch between sample points (?), and a 1M pot for variation of some sort.
for the patch out version, if one were to add jacks for the points normally routed via the rotary switch of the s&h, do you think could work those new patch points could be useful in other forms of patching?
if they are just going to be routed to the s&h it would seem silly to put inputs for all of them, but if they can be safely routed elsewhere jacks could be a cool option. especially so you could connect the input of the s&h to all the points at once.

-et-
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I got a question about this here Sample and Hold. I'm wondering should I just connect it to the boards(SoundLab) power supply and ground or do I need to hook it up to some new batteries?
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adhdboy



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The boards power supply and ground are fine. Its pretty low current.
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Ray, I kinda figured as much, but thanks for comfirming. Thanks again for such a great project. I can't keep my hands off this synthesizer. All my friends are so impressed, myself included Embarassed

Bad part is I haven't touch my poor guitar in weeks.

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adhdboy



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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I know how it is. I wish I didn't have to sleep but if you've ever seen the Seinfeld where Kramer tries to sleep only 30 minutes every four hours it shows what a bad (if very funny) idea it is. I pick up my axe at least once a week just to make sure the muscle memory is still there. I wanna play more but what can a brother do. There are too many projects and too little time. And then there is my day job... that really gets in the way Shocked

Cheers

Ray

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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I built this Circuit last night and I'm having some issues.

No subs just a 2 resistors in parallel to make a 330K
My SL is patched here the patch: LFO to S&H in- CV out of S&H to CV of OSC 1
Syptoms:
-When I plug into OSC CV it pitches the OSC up dramatically
-Its hard to get the S&H dialed in(but it works)
-It won't work with the sound source
IMPORTANT- I added a 1K resistor to my CV out, not sure if I was supposed to, but in the Patched version it shows this on all the outs.

UM and The pot is where I thinked I screwed up here is how I wired it up
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

oh yeh and when its not in the oatch and you turn the pot it effects the OSC, it drifts as you turn it
thanks I hope I get it figure out. It sound real nice when it works

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adhdboy



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So I built this Circuit last night and I'm having some issues.

No subs just a 2 resistors in parallel to make a 330K
OK

My SL is patched here the patch:
LFO to S&H in- CV out of S&H to CV of OSC 1

Syptoms:
-When I plug into OSC CV it pitches the OSC up dramatically
Yes this happens because the output of the S&H is biased above ground.
You can try decreasing the value of R16 to cause the output bias to
go lower. (try going down in increments of 50K ohm). Also I turn my
Sound Lab pitch pots way down when playing with the sample and hold.


-Its hard to get the S&H dialed in(but it works)
??? Do you mean dialing in the pitch pots of the Sound Lab or what?


-It won't work with the sound source
??? Do you mean noise source? It should mine does.

IMPORTANT- I added a 1K resistor to my CV out, not sure if I was supposed to, but in the Patched version it shows this on all the outs.
No problem.


UM and The pot is where I thinked I screwed up here is how I wired it up
The pot looks correct from your diagram.


oh yeh and when its not in the oatch and you turn the pot it effects the OSC, it drifts as you turn it
This should not happen...? Check all of your wiring. How new are your batteries? If you are on a power supply you should not have any interaction at all.


thanks I hope I get it figure out. It sound real nice when it works
Let me know if this helps.

Check the latest info on the page and make sure you use CTRL-Refresh with your browser so you don't get an old cache of the page.

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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well haven't made it any further I actually took a step backwards. MY LFO WENT OUT Mad. I think I burned a chip?
Quote:
When I plug into OSC CV it pitches the OSC up dramatically
Yes this happens because the output of the S&H is biased above ground.
You can try decreasing the value of R16 to cause the output bias to
go lower. (try going down in increments of 50K ohm). Also I turn my
Sound Lab pitch pots way down when playing with the sample and hold.

good that answers that question
Quote:
Its hard to get the S&H dialed in(but it works)
??? Do you mean dialing in the pitch pots of the Sound Lab or what?

sample rate of the S&H
Quote:
It won't work with the sound source
??? Do you mean noise source? It should mine does.
oops yes I meant noise
Quote:
oh yeh and when its not in the oatch and you turn the pot it effects the OSC, it drifts as you turn it
This should not happen...? Check all of your wiring. How new are your batteries? If you are on a power supply you should not have any interaction at all.

fresh batteries
thanks Ray
I think when I get my LFO working(cross my fingers) I'm going to wire it up with a rotary switch like on your page and just have the trigger and CV patchable.
I was wondering do I have to make new patch points(if I wanted it patchable) for the ins. Like for LFS AR2 and NS2, because they appear to be different than the normal patch points. Hope thats not confusing.

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adhdboy



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have updated the info here. It is the latest and greatest. If you go with this you should be good to go.

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/singlechipsampleandhold/singlechipsampleandhold.html

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