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nathanxl
Joined: Apr 24, 2012 Posts: 77 Location: Wa
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:59 am Post subject:
Lunetta Pulse/Trigger/Gate Delay |
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Hi.
I have a need to variably (prefferably with a pot) delay a pulse (a gate from a 4024 shift register) from about a milisecond up to maybe 2seconds long.
Basically I have the 4024 outputs going through gate to trigger circuits and then Im using the triggers to drive small motors that pluck strings... Now I want to be able to dampen the strings with solenoids just after they are plucked...
Im sure there is a simple Lunetta solution to this that maybe uses one chip and a few other components.
Do any of you gurus have experience with this kind of circuit?
Im aware I will need to beef things up to drive the solenoids its just the delay part that has this noob baffled. |
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:51 am Post subject:
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first thing that came to mind was a 555 in monostable mode but that just changes the length of the pulse, maybe if you invert it
add some extra logic that might be usefull.
something with a shiftregister ? clk sets delay time, but you would need a flip flop or something at the data input if the pulse
is shorter then a CLK cycle. You could use some logic to control the time digitally too by setting the number of places it shifts.
(a mux that selects where you take the pulse out) _________________ "My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube Last edited by PHOBoS on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
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nathanxl
Joined: Apr 24, 2012 Posts: 77 Location: Wa
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:52 am Post subject:
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OMG PHOBoS, that is fantastic. I knew this was the right place to get an answer.
Great work.
Im away from the "Lab" for the next few days so cannot put this together myself ATM but I thankyou from the bottom of my heart.
I look forward to getting this up and running. Just on first glance, once I have decided on the desired Pulse length of this circuit would I be able to switch out the pot with a resistor permanently or will this value always need adjustment? Because this circuit is going on an (already complicated) instrument that I use in a live performance situation I like the idea of having just one pot to adjust the delay time of the pulse... I get confused easily when on stage.
WOW, cant wait to get back in the shed. |
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:11 am Post subject:
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you're very welcome
a pulse delay was something I have been thinking about before, just hadn't taken the time yet to come up with a circuit.
so I'm glad you asked. And yes you can of course replace the pot with a resistor. You could even leave out the pot/diode/cap
attached to pin 8 alltogether and just connect it directly to pin 3. But then the pulse might be too short.
You could also leave out the LED's but I think the active LED is very usefull.
I'm looking forward to see it added to your amazing sculpture _________________ "My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube |
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nathanxl
Joined: Apr 24, 2012 Posts: 77 Location: Wa
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Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:45 am Post subject:
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Not yet a finished module as I needed it working quickly, just on breadboard at the moment.
Still some noise/false triggering issues but you get the idea.
I love this module, I may make the delay time CV to add even more craziness.
Sounds a lil' "bluegrassy" towards the end!
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dougseidel
Joined: Feb 10, 2010 Posts: 74 Location: NJ
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:50 am Post subject:
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with all the LED's it probably looks great in the dark, which got me thinking. you should be able to get some nice visual effects if you light up the strings
with some strobe lights (bright LED's). If they are tuned to a fixed frequency you can just dial in the correct flash rate. Not sure if it would be really visible
though. here's an example:
some lights that light up the strings when they are plucked (until dampened) would be nice anyway, but maybe you already have that.
edit: removed some spilleng orrers _________________ "My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube Last edited by PHOBoS on Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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analog_backlash
Joined: Sep 04, 2012 Posts: 393 Location: Aldershot, UK
Audio files: 21
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Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:38 am Post subject:
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PHOBoS wrote: |
with all the LED's it probably looks great in the dark, which got me thinking. you should be able to get some nice visual effects if you light up the strings
with some stobe lights (bright LED's). If they are tuned to a fixed frequency you can just dial in the correct flash rate. Not sure if it would be really visible
though. |
Following on from PHOBoS' comment, you could spray paint the strings in fluorescent colours and use UV LEDs for the strobes and then turn out the lights... Just a thought - I don't know how well it would work.
Gary |
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nathanxl
Joined: Apr 24, 2012 Posts: 77 Location: Wa
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Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:20 am Post subject:
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I have had this fantastic circuit on a breadboard driving my 8string Lunetta Guitar for a few weeks now and its great. I am now starting to move it over to space wiring, freeform style... Its going to take some time as you can expect.
8gate inputs, 8delay circuits and 8outputs to relays (hidden underneath) then this goes out to the solenoids on the strings:
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nathanxl
Joined: Apr 24, 2012 Posts: 77 Location: Wa
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Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:26 am Post subject:
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Im building another small Lunetta Guitar in a briefcase for a small tour in Japan next month.
It will have 12 strings and space is premium so Ive tried to keep everything compact. Here is the same circuit on perfboard for 12string dampeners.
Ive sourced some solid state relays so the only sound heard is the slight clack of the dampener arm...
I have to get back to the workshop. SO much to do.
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dougseidel
Joined: Feb 10, 2010 Posts: 74 Location: NJ
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Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:10 am Post subject:
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would love to hear the recordings of your music with these instruments etc - is anything on soundcloud or elsewhere? _________________ http://soundcloud.com/douglasmseidel |
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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Majonymus
Joined: Aug 22, 2013 Posts: 1 Location: spain
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Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject:
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So creative work, great inspiration, loved the video |
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nathanxl
Joined: Apr 24, 2012 Posts: 77 Location: Wa
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Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:48 pm Post subject:
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Here is a video of the suitcase lunetta guitar.
http://youtu.be/F7spf36owbs
Its a self generative patch using the audio from the strings to drive the cypher sequencer... The delay circuit on the string mute actuators has an effect on what audio is "heard" by the sequencer, thus altering the composition... Ad infinitum. |
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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mike page
Joined: Sep 26, 2016 Posts: 134 Location: norwich, uk
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:32 am Post subject:
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Hey yo.
This looks useful! Ive also read about pulse delay with 40106 schmitt triggers
http://www.talkingelectronics.com/ChipDataEbook-1d/html/74C14.html
is this 4093 design the best way to go?
Mine are going to be for a device to turn 3 piezos attached to a drum kit into bits for a multiplexer for little arpy trills as drums are struck.
its going to go a bit like this : piezo --> buffer and pulse out --> pulse delayer/extender/inverter --> multiplexer --> wiggly acid ∴ everyone gets down. |
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:58 am Post subject:
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well, I designed the 4093 version so of course that is the best way to go But honestly, I never saw the 40106 version before
so I have no experience with it and can't tell how well it works. But I do know that the 4093 should be able to handle very short
pulses to trigger it and it looks like the 40106 version might not work very well when pulses are too short and it could affect
the timing. _________________ "My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube |
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mike page
Joined: Sep 26, 2016 Posts: 134 Location: norwich, uk
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Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject:
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Is the output always longer than the input with 4093 option? I need something to turn big pulses into small ones (and delay them). I guess this is a positive edge detector right? |
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:03 am Post subject:
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mike page wrote: | Is the output always longer than the input with 4093 option? I need something to turn big pulses into small ones (and delay them). I guess this is a positive edge detector right? |
It is not necesarrily longer as it depends on the settings, but it will never be low when the input is still high.
Say you would use an input signal with a duration of 2 seconds and set both the delay time and pulse length to 0.5 sec.
at T= 0 the input goes high, output is still low
at T= 0.5 the output goes high because of the delay time setting.
at T= 1 the output would go low again because of the pulse length setting, but since the input is still high it will stay high untill T = 2.
The flip flop made with U1c & U1d triggers on a negative edge but the input is inverted by the transistor so that does work
as a positive edge detector. However, the output isn't completely isolated from the input hence why it will stay high
when the input still is. There is a simple solution for this though but I haven't tested it. If you add a small capacitor
(100pF will probably suffice) in series with pin 13 and add another pullup resistor to that pin as well, the input signal will
be transformed into a very short pulse before it triggers the flip flop. _________________ "My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24083 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:09 am Post subject:
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Or try a CMOS MMV ... two in one housing, can do a lot with that for pulse processing .. CD4098. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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mike page
Joined: Sep 26, 2016 Posts: 134 Location: norwich, uk
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Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject:
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Cool, thanks for the tips lads!
the 4098 looks v. useful... |
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Schläfer
Joined: Aug 17, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Berlin
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:20 am Post subject:
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I was looking exactly for this kind of circuit, i want to be able to convert trigger outputs from an arduino sequencer to variable length gate signals.
2 question jumps in my mind:
What will be the maximum length of the gate signal with this design? (i would ideally need long/very long ones)
Would you see an easy modification to be able to add CV control over the gate length ? |
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PHOBoS
Joined: Jan 14, 2010 Posts: 5603 Location: Moon Base
Audio files: 705
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:53 am Post subject:
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The maximum gate length can probably be calculated but depends a bit on the supply voltage. You can make it as long as you
want though by using a larger capacitor or resistor. If you do use a very large capacitor it might be wise to place a resistor in
series with the diode to limit the current a bit. Voltage control could be done with a vactrol or transistor but it would be better to
use a slightly different circuit altogether. I started on a design for a voltage controlled pulse delay recently which will have
voltage control for both delay time and gate length. Actually you could probably modify the NAND circuit by placing a comparator
before pin 8 of U1c and the treshold level (which can be voltage controlled) will determine the gate length. _________________ "My perf, it's full of holes!"
http://phobos.000space.com/
SoundCloud BandCamp MixCloud Stickney Synthyards Captain Collider Twitch YouTube |
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