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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:28 am Post subject:
Building a Yusynth modular! Subject description: Case and modules getting done! :) |
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Hi there!
I'm a new forum member, but I've followed some threads here for a while now.
I recently got very interested in modular synths, much thanks to the Arturia Modular Moog VI synth. As I've built quite a lot of guitar gear, pedals and amps, I figured I'll be allright building my own modular!
So after a lot of research I've opted for the Yusynth stuff. It's widely available and very well documented. I'm ordering my own PCB's and components, not building from kits.
So for starters I've ordered PCB's and components for 3 VCOs. I've also ordered stuff for making the MFOS Matrix Scanning 1V/Octave Keyboard Circuit. I've got an old Yamaha PS10 with a great diode matrix keyboard in it that I will convert to a CV keyboard for my modular.
I've started a build blog on my site. Check it out: http://www.sebsongs.com/category/modularsynth/.
I've designed a casing for the synth too. I see a lot of people having their modulars in several cases with external keyboard. I don't really like the idea of that. I want my modular to be somewhat portable and in one piece. So I made a drawing in sketchup of a MS-20 inspired modular design.
Its 800*500*400mm and can take 32 50*200mm units. For reference, the knobs are 20mm. I'm making my own standard in panel sizes. I researched a lot around the different standards, and saw that there is quite a few, and came to the conclusion that if I'm building my own stuff I might as well make my own standard.
I do realize that a casing like this will limit my choices. But then again, I'm using 1/8" plugs, and will likely be able to fit two VCAs or two ADSRs into one of my smallest panels. I'm making it a goal to get things compact in order to cram a lot of stuff in there.
My goals are to be able to sequence a bass line, maybe sequence some drums too and play over that with the keyboard. The three Yusynth VCOs may be accompanied with more VCOs in the future.
I'm planning to build some effects too. BBD stereo delay and stereo spring reverb is planned, and also some kind of phaser. Maybe the small stone.
Of course the moog and arp filters will be built too.
Tips for my build are very welcome!
For instance: how many amps do I need in my PSU? Im gonna start out with +- 15V 1A.
Anyway, my build will take off in the next couple of weeks, so stay tuned!
Sebastian Last edited by sebsongs on Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:36 am; edited 3 times in total |
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bubzy
Joined: Oct 27, 2010 Posts: 594 Location: United Kingdom
Audio files: 64
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:20 am Post subject:
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to electro-music
great project, the yusynth modules work really well,
as for the psu, if you can get more than 1 amp, get it. more the merrier _________________ _Richard_ |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:04 am Post subject:
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bubzy wrote: | to electro-music
great project, the yusynth modules work really well,
as for the psu, if you can get more than 1 amp, get it. more the merrier |
Thanks! Feels good to be part of the analog synths world!
I'll check out how I can get more amps then!
Sebastian |
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capicoso
Joined: Nov 19, 2012 Posts: 128 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:51 am Post subject:
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Hello. Yusynth's modules are great indeed... with pretty simple PCBs
LM317/337 can give up to 1.5A i think... |
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bubzy
Joined: Oct 27, 2010 Posts: 594 Location: United Kingdom
Audio files: 64
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Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:56 am Post subject:
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if you get a transformer that can deliver more than 1 amp out, you can have multiple voltage regulator stages, so its fairly easy to have many amps (if you can afford the more expensive transformers) _________________ _Richard_ |
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Mongo1
Joined: Aug 11, 2011 Posts: 411 Location: Raleigh NC
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Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:28 pm Post subject:
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Welcome to the club!
Two suggestions:
1) Regarding the form factor, I would really urge you to think twice about that. It is very common for people to build modules, and then realize at some point they never use module X - so they sell X, and build something else. You might also be browsing around here one day and find somebody selling their coveted Ratastat 3000 module really cheap. It's what you always wanted!!! If you have your own format, you will find things like that very difficult. Between Euro, 4U (Serge and Frac Rac), and 5U (MOTM & MU), there are some really good sizes available. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to 'go rogue' unless you've got some really compelling reason.
2) Regarding the keyboard - When I started out, I bought an old Lowery organ, and hooked up that nifty MFOS keyboard CV module to it. It worked fairly well, but I experienced a lot of problems with sticky keys, leaky caps etc. I recently tossed the whole thing in the dump, and built a Polydac MIDI module. The interface is much cleaner, the response is great, and now I can hook my modular up to any keyboard controller, as well as my Electribe, or a computer. You can get a simple midi/CV interface fairly cheaply, and it does open a lot of different options for you.
Just my $.02 - your mileage may vary.
Good luck!
Gary |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:46 am Post subject:
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Mongo1 wrote: | Welcome to the club!
Two suggestions:
1) Regarding the form factor, I would really urge you to think twice about that. It is very common for people to build modules, and then realize at some point they never use module X - so they sell X, and build something else. You might also be browsing around here one day and find somebody selling their coveted Ratastat 3000 module really cheap. It's what you always wanted!!! If you have your own format, you will find things like that very difficult. Between Euro, 4U (Serge and Frac Rac), and 5U (MOTM & MU), there are some really good sizes available. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to 'go rogue' unless you've got some really compelling reason.
2) Regarding the keyboard - When I started out, I bought an old Lowery organ, and hooked up that nifty MFOS keyboard CV module to it. It worked fairly well, but I experienced a lot of problems with sticky keys, leaky caps etc. I recently tossed the whole thing in the dump, and built a Polydac MIDI module. The interface is much cleaner, the response is great, and now I can hook my modular up to any keyboard controller, as well as my Electribe, or a computer. You can get a simple midi/CV interface fairly cheaply, and it does open a lot of different options for you.
Just my $.02 - your mileage may vary.
Good luck!
Gary |
Good feedback! I'm considering other panels sizes then. The standard 8.75" by 2.125" is not far from what I was considering, so maybe I'll go with that. I'm planning to build everything myself, but hey, you never know!
Regarding the keyboard matrix scanner - I've already ordered everything to build it, so I will give it a go.
If it is crap, then its 20 bucks worth of components in the bin. Not the end of the world.
Thanks for the input, I'll gladly take more of that!
Sebastian |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:50 am Post subject:
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By the way, components are starting to show up in my mail box!
I'm waiting for another shipment of components and also the PCBs now. I'll probably be soldering by next week. |
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capicoso
Joined: Nov 19, 2012 Posts: 128 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject:
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sebsongs wrote: | Mongo1 wrote: | Welcome to the club!
Two suggestions:
1) Regarding the form factor, I would really urge you to think twice about that. It is very common for people to build modules, and then realize at some point they never use module X - so they sell X, and build something else. You might also be browsing around here one day and find somebody selling their coveted Ratastat 3000 module really cheap. It's what you always wanted!!! If you have your own format, you will find things like that very difficult. Between Euro, 4U (Serge and Frac Rac), and 5U (MOTM & MU), there are some really good sizes available. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to 'go rogue' unless you've got some really compelling reason.
2) Regarding the keyboard - When I started out, I bought an old Lowery organ, and hooked up that nifty MFOS keyboard CV module to it. It worked fairly well, but I experienced a lot of problems with sticky keys, leaky caps etc. I recently tossed the whole thing in the dump, and built a Polydac MIDI module. The interface is much cleaner, the response is great, and now I can hook my modular up to any keyboard controller, as well as my Electribe, or a computer. You can get a simple midi/CV interface fairly cheaply, and it does open a lot of different options for you.
Just my $.02 - your mileage may vary.
Good luck!
Gary |
Good feedback! I'm considering other panels sizes then. The standard 8.75" by 2.125" is not far from what I was considering, so maybe I'll go with that. I'm planning to build everything myself, but hey, you never know!
Regarding the keyboard matrix scanner - I've already ordered everything to build it, so I will give it a go.
If it is crap, then its 20 bucks worth of components in the bin. Not the end of the world.
Thanks for the input, I'll gladly take more of that!
Sebastian |
I built the 1v/oct controller, but the resistor chain one... and it's fine. If you use a good cap(mica, polystyrene, polyetc...) for the sample & hold part you're good. But after i found the midi 628 i regret building the 1v/oct controller... Because i etch my boards, etching and soldering on a double sided home-made board is not fun. And a fairly big board too 13cm x 9cm if i remember well... the midi 628 was just 6cm x 5cm, the DACs are a bit expensive, but it has perfect tracking and is simple, just 1 note cv, but other cv for velocity or other CC messages... |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:10 pm Post subject:
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capicoso wrote: |
I built the 1v/oct controller, but the resistor chain one... and it's fine. If you use a good cap(mica, polystyrene, polyetc...) for the sample & hold part you're good. But after i found the midi 628 i regret building the 1v/oct controller... Because i etch my boards, etching and soldering on a double sided home-made board is not fun. And a fairly big board too 13cm x 9cm if i remember well... the midi 628 was just 6cm x 5cm, the DACs are a bit expensive, but it has perfect tracking and is simple, just 1 note cv, but other cv for velocity or other CC messages... |
Sure, I know the quirks that goes along with analog CV control. But partly that is what I am after. That experience. I will probably add a MIDI to CV in the future so I can connect the modular to a DAW for some sequencing. And a more correct midi keyboard, if I'm in that mood.
But there is something that compels me with the analog keyboard to CV conversion. Well, you will all see how I get along soon. PCBs and components is just a couple of days away.
Speaking of sequencing, I'm making an arduino based sequencer. 16 steps, three channels with CV and Gate. Very minimal user interface. I'll get it its own thread when I'm done, but its up and running software wise. Its gonna be pretty cool. Its utilizing an arduino mini pro with 8MHz processor. Not very analog, I know, but as long as the sound source is, then I'm a happy camper!
I investigated cmos sequencers, but they get big and clunky real fast, and not very advanced. So microcontroller will be my choice in that domain.
Anywho, see you when there's components on my table!
In the meantime, check out the blog:
http://www.sebsongs.com/category/modularsynth/ |
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kkissinger
Joined: Mar 28, 2006 Posts: 1353 Location: Kansas City, Mo USA
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:35 am Post subject:
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If I had space for only one Yusynth filter, I would build the Yusynth Diode-Ladder filter. Both the ARP and Moog filter clones are transistor ladder filters. You may want to substitute the diode-ladder for either one of these filters.
I am also a fan of the Yusynth Fixed-filter bank. I would highly recommend that your synthesizer includes the Yusynth output modules (with its built in tone-controls).
Also, for the number of modules that you are housing, make sure you include a hefty power supply. I use the MFOS 3-amp power supplies (your synth would likely only require one of them.
What kind of sequencer are you planning (since Yusynth doesn't have a sequencer). For your application, you may want to consider a Voltage Quantizer (check out the MFOS voltage quantizer) along with your sequencer.
I have built many Yusynth modules and they are all excellent. You will end up with a very nice instrument. _________________ -- Kevin
http://kevinkissinger.com |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject:
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kkissinger wrote: | If I had space for only one Yusynth filter, I would build the Yusynth Diode-Ladder filter. Both the ARP and Moog filter clones are transistor ladder filters. You may want to substitute the diode-ladder for either one of these filters.
I am also a fan of the Yusynth Fixed-filter bank. I would highly recommend that your synthesizer includes the Yusynth output modules (with its built in tone-controls).
Also, for the number of modules that you are housing, make sure you include a hefty power supply. I use the MFOS 3-amp power supplies (your synth would likely only require one of them.
What kind of sequencer are you planning (since Yusynth doesn't have a sequencer). For your application, you may want to consider a Voltage Quantizer (check out the MFOS voltage quantizer) along with your sequencer.
I have built many Yusynth modules and they are all excellent. You will end up with a very nice instrument. |
So much great feedback! Thanks!
I have all the components and PCBs for my three VCOs and the matrix keyboard scanner now.
I will be starting to put them together soon.
I'm not understanding the first thing you wrote.. Do you mean that if I only have room for one filter I should do the diode ladder, but the moog and arp are nicer? Or what du you mean by substituting the diode ladder filter for arp and moog?
Anyway, I'm planning on at least building both arp and moog filters. Maybe the diode ladder too. What are the differences in sound between transistor and diode ladder filters?
I'm building some sort of stereo mixer for my output. Maybe yusynth, maybe mfos. Haven't decided.
For power supply I'm starting out with a 1A 7815 chip PSU. It will do for testing and getting started. After I get some more modules I will investigate a more powerful PSU.
The sequencer I am making is my own take on a Arduino sequencer. I've research cmos-sequencers alot but it gets so big and complicated. Right now my sequencer has 3 outputs with CV and Gate, 16 steps with individual on off on each and individual semitone control. I can set amount of steps, swing and bpm too. I've read that people have had problems with PWM for CV, but I also read that the arduino PWM can be set to some 60kHz rate, and that would make it more even.
I have not tested my sequencer on an oscillator yet (since I haven't started building them!) so I'm not sure if my design works yet. As I've stated before I will give my arduino sequencer its own thread when it is ready.
I take comfort in hearing that so many people have had so much success with the yusynth stuff. Seems like I made a good choice!
Check out http://www.sebsongs.com/category/modularsynth/ for updates on my project. |
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kkissinger
Joined: Mar 28, 2006 Posts: 1353 Location: Kansas City, Mo USA
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:33 am Post subject:
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sebsongs wrote: | I'm not understanding the first thing you wrote.. Do you mean that if I only have room for one filter I should do the diode ladder, but the moog and arp are nicer? Or what du you mean by substituting the diode ladder filter for arp and moog? What are the differences in sound between transistor and diode ladder filters? |
The transistor-ladder and diode-ladder filters are similar at nominal input signal levels and low to moderate resonance. When the input signal is low and the resonance is high, the transistor ladder tends to "ring" in a smooth fashion -- almost like a clean sine wave. The diode-ladder tends to ring in a more complex manner that could be described as "bubbly" or "gritty" depending on the balance between the input level and the resonance.
The other thing I like about the Yusynth Diode Ladder filter vs the Yusynth Moog filter clone, is that the Diode Ladder filter tracks for nearly seven octaves whereas the tracking of the Moog Filter clone is not as accurate over a wide range.
I haven't built the ARP clone because my Aries filters are essentially the same as ARP filters (transistor ladder filters). So I can't provide info about the ARP filter clone other than the general observation about Yusynth modules -- that they all sound great!
To clarify my suggestion -- if your design/panel space limits you to two VCFs, to have one transistor-ladder and one diode-ladder filter gives you more versatility than two filters of the same style.
And... the nice thing about DIY is that you can change your mind! You can build more than two filters and then choose the two that are most useful for you.
Enjoy! _________________ -- Kevin
http://kevinkissinger.com |
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kkissinger
Joined: Mar 28, 2006 Posts: 1353 Location: Kansas City, Mo USA
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:48 am Post subject:
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btw -- I have wanted to put together a demonstration to compare the different filters -- so I'll get some A/B comparisons together and post them this evening. _________________ -- Kevin
http://kevinkissinger.com |
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wmonk
Joined: Sep 15, 2008 Posts: 528 Location: Enschede, the Netherlands
Audio files: 15
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:05 am Post subject:
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For versatility I would go for a state-variable or other multimode filter instead of one of the transistorladders. That way you also have 12dB/octave, highpass and bandpass responses.
Yusynth has the Steiner VCF that does that, and its the same filter as in the minibrute. _________________ Weblog! |
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kkissinger
Joined: Mar 28, 2006 Posts: 1353 Location: Kansas City, Mo USA
Audio files: 41
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:57 pm Post subject:
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At first, I was hesitant to recommend the Yusynth Steiner filter but, guess what? Yves has modified his circuitry and it addresses the very problems I've encountered with mine:
http://yusynth.net/Modular/index_en.html
Having said that, the Steiner filter would be an excellent choice.
I still prefer the Diode-Ladder filter to the MiniMoog clone but it is really a matter of personal preference.
You couldn't go wrong with the Steiner and the Diode-ladder for your two filters.
(You won't go wrong with the Transistor ladder filters, either. I think it may be a personal preference kind of thing. I couldn't decide, so I just built 'em all -- plus for some reason, I enjoy building filters. Why I enjoy building them so much I don't know. It is just kind of fun to bring them to life. ) _________________ -- Kevin
http://kevinkissinger.com |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:53 pm Post subject:
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kkissinger wrote: | At first, I was hesitant to recommend the Yusynth Steiner filter but, guess what? Yves has modified his circuitry and it addresses the very problems I've encountered with mine:
http://yusynth.net/Modular/index_en.html
Having said that, the Steiner filter would be an excellent choice.
I still prefer the Diode-Ladder filter to the MiniMoog clone but it is really a matter of personal preference.
You couldn't go wrong with the Steiner and the Diode-ladder for your two filters.
(You won't go wrong with the Transistor ladder filters, either. I think it may be a personal preference kind of thing. I couldn't decide, so I just built 'em all -- plus for some reason, I enjoy building filters. Why I enjoy building them so much I don't know. It is just kind of fun to bring them to life. ) |
Thanks for all your quite passionate feedback. I'm amazed how the people on this forum are embracing new members and answer questions with no fuss or irony. Really great to get this help!
Considering filters, I think I will try to get all the yusynth filters built, as you said kissinger, why not?
I get what you say regarding the diode ladder filter, seems like a really cool filter. And the Steiner makes sense. But I really want the moog and arp filters too. So well, I will probably end up with them all. You can't have too many, right? |
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bubzy
Joined: Oct 27, 2010 Posts: 594 Location: United Kingdom
Audio files: 64
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:24 am Post subject:
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speaking of steiner,
i bought the pcbs from ken stone, the steiner filter is really nice, i have 3 in my system at the moment, wouldnt be worried if i had more
http://www.cgs.synth.net/ (click on pcbs for sale, the steiner board is only $10 each)
if you are etching yourself there is another pcb design here http://www.aleph.co.jp/~takeda/radio/steinerVcfE.html
although its a bit tricky to build. _________________ _Richard_ |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:03 am Post subject:
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bubzy wrote: | speaking of steiner,
i bought the pcbs from ken stone, the steiner filter is really nice, i have 3 in my system at the moment, wouldnt be worried if i had more
http://www.cgs.synth.net/ (click on pcbs for sale, the steiner board is only $10 each)
if you are etching yourself there is another pcb design here http://www.aleph.co.jp/~takeda/radio/steinerVcfE.html
although its a bit tricky to build. |
Cool. I think I'll go with the version on Yves page though. =) |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:59 pm Post subject:
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I've gotten my power supply in order now. So now I will be matching transistors and start to build the first VCO!
More to come soon! =) |
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wmonk
Joined: Sep 15, 2008 Posts: 528 Location: Enschede, the Netherlands
Audio files: 15
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 1:52 pm Post subject:
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I can highly recommend the 'Ian Fritz method' of matching transistors. He published this in 2010, and it already saved me a lot of time compared to the Moog style matching.
http://home.comcast.net/~ijfritz/projects/transmat001.pdf
[link fixed by Blue Hell] _________________ Weblog! |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:11 am Post subject:
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Cool. I actually did it the Moog way and it went very well. I put a fan on the transistors and the test rig so I got a consistent temperature and flow of air.
I'm almost finished with the first VCO! All I need now is to get the pots and connectors on and I'm good to go! I'm gonna borrow an oscilloscope next week to calibrate everything. Hopefully everything works as expected!
It's hard to see in this picture but I glued the BC547's and the TEMPCO together with thermal glue. The stuff you glue heatsinks onto CPUs with.
It conducts temperature and attaches stuff together like hell!
Hopefully it will be good for keeping the VCO in tune.
I'll know in a couple more days. |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:27 am Post subject:
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My first Yusynth VCO is now working perfectly! It started and worked as expected the first time i plugged it in! Very cool indeed!
The panel is a cardboard mockup. Just to see if everything would fit.
Now onto the next PCB, the MFOS keyboard matrix scanner! |
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sebsongs
Joined: Feb 09, 2013 Posts: 49 Location: Malmö, Sweden
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:21 am Post subject:
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Mongo1 wrote: | Welcome to the club!
Regarding the keyboard - When I started out, I bought an old Lowery organ, and hooked up that nifty MFOS keyboard CV module to it. It worked fairly well, but I experienced a lot of problems with sticky keys, leaky caps etc. I recently tossed the whole thing in the dump, and built a Polydac MIDI module. The interface is much cleaner, the response is great, and now I can hook my modular up to any keyboard controller, as well as my Electribe, or a computer. You can get a simple midi/CV interface fairly cheaply, and it does open a lot of different options for you.
Gary |
So, I got the keyboard scanner built this weekend and tried it out. It's working but it does not play semitones. Not western semitones anyway. Sounds more eastern semitones to my ears.
I guess the resistors in the R2R could be the culprit, but I did match them.
I guess I'll have to eat my hat and go MIDI. I can waste days working on the analog route or just get on with it and play music with MIDI.
However, I'm enjoying my one VCO and looking forward to building two more! |
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capicoso
Joined: Nov 19, 2012 Posts: 128 Location: Argentina
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject:
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sebsongs wrote: | Mongo1 wrote: | Welcome to the club!
Regarding the keyboard - When I started out, I bought an old Lowery organ, and hooked up that nifty MFOS keyboard CV module to it. It worked fairly well, but I experienced a lot of problems with sticky keys, leaky caps etc. I recently tossed the whole thing in the dump, and built a Polydac MIDI module. The interface is much cleaner, the response is great, and now I can hook my modular up to any keyboard controller, as well as my Electribe, or a computer. You can get a simple midi/CV interface fairly cheaply, and it does open a lot of different options for you.
Gary |
So, I got the keyboard scanner built this weekend and tried it out. It's working but it does not play semitones. Not western semitones anyway. Sounds more eastern semitones to my ears.
I guess the resistors in the R2R could be the culprit, but I did match them.
I guess I'll have to eat my hat and go MIDI. I can waste days working on the analog route or just get on with it and play music with MIDI.
However, I'm enjoying my one VCO and looking forward to building two more! |
You can do the single buss one if you still want analog |
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